A quote from Al. O

[95birdible]

Is that the survey I did a few months ago? The bow 5 wasn't even an issue then. Wonder what may pop up in a few more months?

[Drago77]

Originally Posted by '11 cyber grey vert

Drago...good question.
As I am an optimist, I will give GM the benefit of the doubt(until proven otherwise) and hope GM is working on a permanent fix and not just a statement for a sales tactic to alleviate any concerns from future ZL1 vert owners.
But it encouraging nonetheless to finally see "a response" from a GM employee.

I would also be interested to see the numbers.
The total number of verts produced vs. the number of top replacements

Its hard for me to keep optimistic with all that's transpired, but your right... innocent until proven guilty! Gotta admit tho- timing is suspect.... ZL1s just hitting the streets, vert orders about to begin mainstream... hmmmm.....

Good luck on the numbers. I've been trying to simply find convertible production numbers in general per model year... they used to be able to track builds, builds per month even colors on here for the coupes, nothing on the verts!

I don't think we'll ever get an accurate representation of the defective tops... there too many owners who just bought the car cuz it looks nice and have no idea about this site, top defects or that the marks aren't "normal." Not to mention fleet cars etc...I do know there's very FEW ppl on here that post with no problems, whether that's truly indicative of anything or not, who knows? My own trips to the dealer yield about 1-2 bad tops for every 1 good one... so the odds don't appear to be in GMs favor, but I'm gaging off ANY rub marks in the target areas, not just severe marks. To me, light marks on a dealer car are severe marks waiting to happen once it gets driven and things settle. Just my opinion tho

[Lee123]

Originally Posted by 95birdible

Is that the survey I did a few months ago? The bow 5 wasn't even an issue then. Wonder what may pop up in a few more months?

Yep, that's the one. You posted a link to it a couple days ago in response to my question asking the moderator for some statistics proving that the problems were a minority as he had stated. As you probably noticed, he hasn't posted those yet.

Drago mentioned fleet cars and that reminded me that back in the 90's one of the rental car companies had a load of Camaro convertibles in Hawaii. Seemed like there were several in every hotel parking lot. It's hard to believe that most of those tops were breaking breaking repeatedly. They must have known how to make good tops at some point.

[95birdible]

Marks on a brand new car is not normal. One dealer I went to had 6 on the lot and all had perfect tops just like mine when I got it. Then again, another dealer had 4 and all had marks and one had a bow 5 out of place.

['11 cyber grey vert]

[QUOTE=Drago77;4369358]Its hard for me to keep optimistic with all that's transpired, but your right... innocent until proven guilty! Gotta admit tho- timing is suspect.... ZL1s just hitting the streets, vert orders about to begin mainstream... hmmmm.....

Not to mention ...posting on the ZL1 forum and not the convertible forum....hmmmmm.x2

but again I will give GM the benefit of the doubt for now.

I know alot of the vert owners have experienced major issues but I could be one of the lucky ones for now.
That is why I am concerned.I have had my vert since last july without any major issues, but I have had it stored for winter since end of November and won't be bringing her out of hibernation until april.
I am just wondering if it is lack of cycles that has kept my top from blowing apart like other ones or am I just one of the lucky ones?
I guess time will tell and hopefully a permanent fix will be available by then.

[95birdible]

My top was down everyday from 8/4 thru 10/13. Never rained and was never not pleasant to drive with it down. I didn't buy a convertible not to drive it with the top up. If I was going to I would of bought a coupe

['11 cyber grey vert]

Originally Posted by 95birdible

My top was down everyday from 8/4 thru 10/13. Never rained and was never not pleasant to drive with it down. I didn't buy a convertible not to drive it with the top up. If I was going to I would of bought a coupe

I do put the roof down at every opportunity and sometimes up and down several times on the same day.Must have been cycled at least a couple of hundred times and I'am with you, I didn't buy the coupe because I wanted to go TOPLESS
driving a coupe= okay
driving a vert= priceless!!!

[Drago77]

[QUOTE='11 cyber grey vert;4369423]

Originally Posted by Drago77

Its hard for me to keep optimistic with all that's transpired, but your right... innocent until proven guilty! Gotta admit tho- timing is suspect.... ZL1s just hitting the streets, vert orders about to begin mainstream... hmmmm.....

Not to mention ...posting on the ZL1 forum and not the convertible forum....hmmmmm.x2

but again I will give GM the benefit of the doubt for now.

I know alot of the vert owners have experienced major issues but I could be one of the lucky ones for now.
That is why I am concerned.I have had my vert since last july without any major issues, but I have had it stored for winter since end of November and won't be bringing her out of hibernation until april.
I am just wondering if it is lack of cycles that has kept my top from blowing apart like other ones or am I just one of the lucky ones?
I guess time will tell and hopefully a permanent fix will be available by then.

I got mine Feb 26 and didn't notice anything until late March/April... I very, very rarely drive with the top up and always store top up, although its not a daily driver, it gets cycled regularly. My driver side marks are faint. If it wasn't for the passenger side, I probably wouldn't have noticed the driver, or at least thought anything of it unless they got worse. The passenger side seemed to appear out of no where. I first spotted them approaching the car when parked... visible from a distance, thought I would have noticed if they faded in... been instantaneous on both replacement tops. After 30 min of top down driving, they were back.

['11 cyber grey vert]

[QUOTE=Drago77;4369491]

Originally Posted by '11 cyber grey vert

I got mine Feb 26 and didn't notice anything until late March/April... I very, very rarely drive with the top up and always store top up, although its not a daily driver, it gets cycled regularly. My driver side marks are faint. If it wasn't for the passenger side, I probably wouldn't have noticed the driver, or at least thought anything of it unless they got worse. The passenger side seemed to appear out of no where. I first spotted them approaching the car when parked... visible from a distance, thought I would have noticed if they faded in... been instantaneous on both replacement tops. After 30 min of top down driving, they were back.

Sounds like your rub marks appeared right away.
On mine, I have just very very minor rub marks,hardly noticeable and some wind noise from back window at 60+ MPH(no leaks).so as I have posted before, I won't have the top touched until things get worse or a permanent fix is in.(it is documented at my selling dealer)
I have driven with and without the tonneau cover for extended periods.

[95birdible]

Hop over to the thread again and see Scott's response to my question. My suspicions are becoming reality. They cycled the tops in the cold. He never said they drove them. Hence that is where the problem lies IMO. I posted a question back to him if they were driven in the cold weather also. We shall see his response.

['11 cyber grey vert]

95birdible,
are you saying that driving in cooler weather with the top down is the root of the problems or just driving around with the top down period?

[SUX2BU]

Originally Posted by '11 cyber grey vert

95birdible,
are you saying that driving in cooler weather with the top down is the root of the problems or just driving around with the top down period?

If you look at my top down video you will see how much the top bounces around while you drive. If something gets pinched when the top is down it will rub when it bounces around. If all you do is cycle the top with out driving around "top down" then 90% of the rub marks will never show themselves.

['11 cyber grey vert]

thanks sux,
that explains the rub marks
what about the 5th bows blowing out on some verts?
too much stress with the tops bouncing and twisting about when down?
I think the 5th bows would be more of a problem to fix than the brackets/spacers for the rub problems(I am refering to a GM permanent fix of course)

[spikess581]

I think the 5th bow problem stems from the load put on the bow to keep the top tight holding shape of the coupe. What they endedup doing was placing the ''moment'' of load at the weakest part of the bow that would be the flat bar that attaches the bow to the pivot point. The bar is in a horizontal position. It should have been vertical so it could oppose the load more efficently. I believe the bow bracket is bending because it does not ''unload '' soon enough as the top is being lowered. If you look there are rollers that ride on brackets at the back of the well. This is how they are tensioning the top split second before the rollers begin to move down the load overpowers the bracket. The trick would be to have it unload sooner. A better way would have been to make the bow telescopic with may as little as .125 '' to .250''. It could be actuated by an eccentric activated by the hydraulic cylinders and spring loaded pockets for the rollers to settle into. But what the hell do I know aint got no piece of paper on my wall.