Warranty voided due to mods.

[daveagogo1]

Wow, really didn't expect the whole issue to generate so much response. As i stated in the original post and in my follow up. The guy wasn't angry about his loss of warranty on the power train. He knew what was up when he modded it. He was upset that they denied him warranty work on a leaking gasket.

My main reason for even posting about it was i have sen countless threads on this topic and several more of people claiming to have never actually seen a warranty get voided as if it's up the the air so to speak. Well his did and for the reasons i posted. So now it's no mystery. You tune the car and your pretty much outta luck.

I would LOVE a set of LT's and a tune but, this is the exact reason i don't do it. I have a CAI & TB and that's it other than cosmetic mods. I can change that CAI & TB in minutes if need be so i don't run into any issues.

[MyIBMssRS]

Originally Posted by KILLER74Z28

ford will do the same thing if he mods the mustang by throwing a tune on it...

Seems a bit drastic on his part. Why spend the money to mod it, we all know the risk we take.

[Cali_Camaro_SS]

Quick question, would switching the ECU be a solution if needed to go to the dealer? or would they still know that its not the original ECU? even if its an oem

[black79ta]

somebody mentioned earlier about having a 2nd ECM to swap in when it goes in for service...i would assume they are very expensive...but would it work?

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by 67motorcat

Again,unless of course the replacement part was a direct cause of some other componet failure.
.

well that didn't help this guy out did it.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by black79ta

somebody mentioned earlier about having a 2nd ECM to swap in when it goes in for service...i would assume they are very expensive...but would it work?

This was discussed in another thread, I believe it was determined it wouldn't work because the VIN for the ECM wouldn't match the car and the Mileage wouldn't match the system used the the dash electronics, and both would cause an error that would get picked up.

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by black79ta

somebody mentioned earlier about having a 2nd ECM to swap in when it goes in for service...i would assume they are very expensive...but would it work?

Good luck with that. It is a whole new cat and mouse ball game now. It is not like years ago when you could buy a spare ECM on the net or dealer, yada yada yada. Technological advancements did not stop with the iPhone.

[Pentatonic]

Originally Posted by Number 3

And as for the tune not causing the leak, that's an opinion. Can you verify the all the parameters, temperatures, pressures etc. the new calibration subjected the engine too? No you can't.

If you take the "validation purist" approach, you can't mod your car at all with any power-increasing component (CAI, exhaust, tune or otherwise) and still prove with confidence the powertrain will make it though it's warranty period.

The act of adding power and torque itself puts greater stresses on all of the powertrain components and can reduce your loading cycles before failure, depending on how much safety factor is built into the design.

With that said, I don't think a well-done, conservative tune that adds, say, 20 HP is any worse than an intake/exhaust combo that also adds 20 HP, provided the owner fills up with high octane gasoline. The problem with the tunes is that there are a number of idiots out there who put "bad" tunes in cars. For example, a bad tune may cause the engine to lean out in the upper RPM ranges and detonation can occur. And that can cause serious problems obviously.

[jmaryt]

Originally Posted by daveagogo1

I spoke to a guy who works right across the lot from me today who i saw driving a brand new 5.0 today. He used to have a 2010 5th gen. I asked him what was up. He told me he took his car in last week for an oil leak. He stated the service manager at Gordon Chevrolet got him from the waiting room and explained to him that GM had denied the warranty claim and was officially voiding his power train warranty due to his mods.

I asked him what his mods were exactly.

Kooks Long tubes, x pipe & magnaflow axle back.
Custom tune
CAI
VMAX TB
New bushings and sways.

The service dept checked his ECM and sent it off to GM and warranty gone due to the tune. He didn't fight it. He paid to have the oil leak fixed , immediately drove to Brandon Ford and traded in his SS for a new 5.0 Mustang.

I don't really know the guy but he was pretty annoyed that not only was his warranty officially voided but also that they wouldn't even cover the leaky gasket. I asked if he was a member here and he said nope.

Even though i don't have headers or a tune. I do have plenty of other mods and know where i won't be going for any service. Why check the ECM and send off the info for a leaky gasket??

as much as ya want to do s**t to 'em..ya should wait until your warranty is gone!..you'll f**k the warranty every time!...just sayin!

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Pentatonic

If you take the "validation purist" approach, you can't mod your car at all with any power-increasing component (CAI, exhaust, tune or otherwise) and still prove with confidence the powertrain will make it though it's warranty period.

The act of adding power and torque itself puts greater stresses on all of the powertrain components and can reduce your loading cycles before failure, depending on how much safety factor is built into the design.

With that said, I don't think a well-done, conservative tune that adds, say, 20 HP is any worse than an intake/exhaust combo that also adds 20 HP, provided the owner fills up with high octane gasoline. The problem with the tunes is that there are a number of idiots out there who put "bad" tunes in cars. For example, a bad tune may cause the engine to lean out in the upper RPM ranges and detonation can occur. And that can cause serious problems obviously.

As I am in Validation, that is the position I take most of the time, LOL

You and I can have beer and discuss this as enthusiasts and have a really interesting discussion.

But there is this thing called the stress/strength interference. It is a bell shaped curve of the product usage and loads layed over another bell shaped curve of the strenghth of the product. Ideally, you would like ZERO interference in the two curves. Statistically, however, when you get out to the tails, there is interference. A high load customer will get a weaker part and you have a failure.

GM spends litterally millions of $$ and thousands and thousands of man hours to calibrate a powertrain. It basically certifies the engine for use by the customer in conditions that even the best tuner will not validate. GM does.

Also, the powertrain is probably the most complex subsystem in the car. And the gasket is part of that subsystem. And each part of that subsystem is linked to many others in the operating conditions. So if you change the one single part (the calibration) that impacts the subsystem, you have basically voided your warranty for that entire subsystem.

Everyone keeps saying "sue GM". And finally someone has popped up and said one of the vendors does all the time and wins.

GM has clearly stated the conditions of the warranty and meets those, which is the intent of MM. MM, as I stated, does not force a manufacturer to provide a warranty at all. GM does, and for the powertrain it is 5 years, 100,000 miles. The best in the industry. And GM take great pains to ensure the powertrain can be warrantied for that long.

My Sky has a non-factory calibration from GMPP. The difference is GM has tested that calibration and fully understands the conditions and effects of +30 HP. And the money I paid for it offsets the added warranty GM will pay for the statistically higher interference in the stress/strength curves.

That is why GM clearly states, that the manufacturer of any modification assumes all warranty.

You guys keep thinking of the calibration as a part and GM has to prove that part led to the failure of another. It's a subsystem and when you install an aftermarket calibration, you give up the warranty of that subsystem.

The funny thing is that everyone knows this when they install and aftermarket cal. But everyone is lured by the 20 whole HP and crisper shifts when you turn of torque management. But when something does break, we get these threads.

And as most of you know, I am bothered only by the fact that a bunch of guys come in here screaming that a) the dealer screwed the OP, which they didn't and b) GM is screwing the OP and he should just sue. The dealer is doing what GM has told them to do for PT warranty. There is a bulletin out there if anyone doesn't think that is the case. And GM is simply doing what they told you they would do, that the dealer would have told you they would do and they published on the internet clearly what they would do. So I am only trying to protect GMs reputation in these threads. I and thousands of my coworkers at GM are "enthusiasts" just like you. It is understood that customers want to individualize their cars and trucks and in some cases get more power. But we can't possibly be expected to validate and test every possible modification you can do to your Camaro. And that is what it would take for this idea to be correct, that GM should cover the warranty on this HUGE change to the car.

Yes, it's unfortunate that any failure occurs on any GM car. It's the job of my department to make sure that every GM vehicle exceeds all of your requirements for quality, reliability and durability. So I feel bad for every thread on this site where an owner has any issue with their Camaro. And I feel bad that the OP had any type of problem at all.

[Kermit1]

Pretty soom GM will void your warranty for not having OEM tires. It's totally out of controll. Don't accept, get a lawyer.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Kermit1

Pretty soom GM will void your warranty for not having OEM tires. It's totally out of controll. Don't accept, get a lawyer.

Where do you even get that from?

GM has been verrrrry consistent here. Install a non-factory cal and you void your PT warranty.

I have no clue where you are coming from on your statement.

[Russell James]

It would be nice if GM engineers spent as much time resolving their own problems as worrying about aftermarket calibrations.

How many people have been screwed over by defective oil pumps, lifters, oil pan gaskets, rear main seals.... only to have the problem blamed on the customer's modifications... which had nothing to do with it.

If someone's screwed up calibration melts the pistons, sure they should pay. But when bullshit piss poor quality problems are the real issue, it's quite the douchebag that puts that on the customer.

[HufferSS]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Where do you even get that from?

GM has been verrrrry consistent here. Install a non-factory cal and you void your PT warranty.

I have no clue where you are coming from on your statement.

Your point is taken and understood but consider the OP that started this thread....took the car in for an oil leak and warranty is voided due to modifications.

An oil leak is not going to be caused by a tune, LT headers or a CAI....so why wouldn't GM own that and take care of it? Why wouldn't they simply leave his warranty intact until he comes in with an issue that MAY have actually been caused by a modification and retain the customer and not have hundreds of people on the internet ranting about how unfair they are?

Makes sense to me.... How about you?