My Dirty, Dirty Intake (Pic Heavy)

[sycraft]

Engine Component Description (LFX)
The High Feature V6 (VIN Code Identifier “3” for both cars and trucks) RPO LFX is a 3.6 Liter VVT (Variable Valve Timing) engine with direct injection. The LFX has E85-compatible valves and seats with special materials and coatings that require slightly different service procedures from gasoline valves. The direct injection system places the high pressure injectors in the cylinder heads. This engine incorporates 2 intake and 2 exhaust valves per cylinder, and uses a dual overhead cam design with individual intake and exhaust camshafts. A camshaft position actuator is mounted on each camshaft. The cylinders are arranged in 2 banks of 3 with a 60 degree included angle. The right bank of cylinders are number 1-3-5 and the left bank of cylinders are 2-4-6, viewed from the flywheel end of the engine. The engine firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6.

as per GM technical Info

[911medic]

Thanks, Sycraft.

So the drawing I posted in #96 above is incorrect (actually, exactly opposite).

My worst cylinder was therefore #1.

[Jason@JacFab]

Originally Posted by sycraft

Engine Component Description (LFX)
The High Feature V6 (VIN Code Identifier “3” for both cars and trucks) RPO LFX is a 3.6 Liter VVT (Variable Valve Timing) engine with direct injection. The LFX has E85-compatible valves and seats with special materials and coatings that require slightly different service procedures from gasoline valves. The direct injection system places the high pressure injectors in the cylinder heads. This engine incorporates 2 intake and 2 exhaust valves per cylinder, and uses a dual overhead cam design with individual intake and exhaust camshafts. A camshaft position actuator is mounted on each camshaft. The cylinders are arranged in 2 banks of 3 with a 60 degree included angle. The right bank of cylinders are number 1-3-5 and the left bank of cylinders are 2-4-6, viewed from the flywheel end of the engine. The engine firing order is 1-2-3-4-5-6.

as per GM technical Info

Doesn't make much sense... Why would they reverse the #1 hole side after years and years of it being the front right. Oh well.

[JantzenOKC]

Originally Posted by Jason@JacFab

I didn't see it on the first post, but did you happen to note which of the cylinders was in the worst shape as car as carbon build up? Just wondering if what you have seen coincides with what I'm seeing on my car.

I don't see any build up yet, but I am seeing what I would call excessive oil consumption in cyl's #1, and #6, while the rest of the cylinder intake ports are looking fairly clean.

Bumping an old thread!

Was just reading some threads about seafoaming intake valves because I'm about to clean the valves on my new heads. Well I came across this post by Jason saying his #1(pass front) and #6(driver rear) cylinders intake valves were getting a lot more oil in them than the others. Then the OP says that his #1 valves were the worst.

When my motor grenaded at 7,000rpm I thought it was from too much power or too much cylinder pressure from boost, but when I tore the motor down my two bad cylinders were...... #1 and #6. #1 rod had exploded and #6 rod was badly bent. My intercooler had a lot of oil in it and must have finally made its way into the intake manifold and to the easiest accessed cylinders(#1 & #6). All other rods were very slightly bent, I could tell by how much the pistons were down in the hole compared to the new engine I tore down.

Anyways I don't know what I'm getting at other than this confirms for me what caused my motor to fail. Oil ingestion is a real problem with these V6's! Mine was from an improperly setup evac system putting oil into my turbo intake side and collecting in the intercooler.

[kingbow]

I might do something similar but not as extreme on the 2SS this weekend

[Elite Engineering]

For the most effective PCV/oil separation systems designed just for the GDI V6 and now all 2016 and up V8's in the Camaro, the Elite Engineering E2-X systems at 95% effectiveness are your most robust solution to preventing this. The port injections of the past are able to tolerate some oil, but with GDI having no fuel touching the intake valves anymore, GDI engines cannot tolerate any oil ingestion. Further, using a solvent based upper induction cleaner such as Seafoam or BG when there is more than 10-15k miles on the engine can result in damage as this carbon is a very hard baked on crystalline deposit vs the soft carbon of the past. With no fuel showering the intake valves there is nothing to keep them clean, and the fuel also used to cool the valves that are now operating at far higher temps than before. Only a proper manual cleaning can correctly get them deposit free again w/out the risk of damage. The installation of the proper emissions compliant system like the E2-X will then prevent most further coking in the future. There will always be a small amount with GDI engine due to the EGR emulation of the variable cam timing that brings some burnt gasses back-filling, but that is minor compared to the oil/water/sulfuric acid/soot/carbon/ash that is the main culprit.


Let us know if you need more details.

[Elite Engineering]

Bumping this back up as it has so much good technical information in it.

[Coleroad]

I don't get, like in post 21, and many other posts on this subject. Statements of no carbon on my valves with my catch can, but they never post pictures to prove it. I do see how cleaners like seafoam, and ones like it can cause hard bits to break off. I can also see pieces breaking off the steam during valve movement, and causing damage. I found only one thread where two people with catch cans posted pictures after use. Neither had clean valves. One was with 26,000 miles , and said they had the can on since a few hundred miles. The other after about 11,000 miles, and the pictures were after 46,000 miles.

I have since new, every oil change, cleaned the fixed Orfice pcv valve. Even if it didn't look dirty. I have had no oil coming in from the clean side. There shouldn't be, That side should only have vacuum from the intake to the valve cover. My valves and intake do not look as dirty as those two who posted pictures, and have a catch can. I also plan on when it gets warm out, to use the CRC GI cleaner. https://youtu.be/zdmpI4iUyBs . This video which is not mine shows how it does dissolve the carbon, unlike seafoam. I will post pictures after I do mine. I also only use pennzoil platinum oil. The base they start with is 8% cleaner than mobile 1 . I use K & N oil filter. I also every other tank pore in red line rl1 cleaner in the tank. I do fully understand that fuel is not sprayed on the valves. I do get that there is valve overlap. This does cause some of the cleaner to wash over the valves. 13 lfx, with 25,195 miles

Here is a picture from cylinder one intake. This was taken with my endoscope.

[Coleroad]

Here is a close up picture, of the valve on the right in the previous picture.

[Coleroad]

This is the other thread I referenced to. The one with pictures after catch can install. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=383934

[alice]

Elite engineering is 100% correct. I have their catch can on my twin turbo LLT and I inspect the valves every 10,000 miles. Super clean at 40,000 miles! And the crap I drain out of the can looks like vomit. Unbelievable, everytime I drain it. I would hate to tbink that stuff would be going back in the engine! The cans WORK!

[Elite Engineering]

Originally Posted by alice

Elite engineering is 100% correct. I have their catch can on my twin turbo LLT and I inspect the valves every 10,000 miles. Super clean at 40,000 miles! And the crap I drain out of the can looks like vomit. Unbelievable, everytime I drain it. I would hate to tbink that stuff would be going back in the engine! The cans WORK!

Yes, the proof is in the bottom of the Catch Can

[Coleroad]

The proof is not just oil in the can. It is how clean do the intake valves stay. Why does everyone want to dance around that? Obviously I don't have a oil induction problem. My intake is not covered with oil. Why the resistance to take valve pictures with the can installed? I'm not saying the catch can doesn't work. I am saying show the difference it does, or doesn't make as far as carbon buildup. Alice says the valves are perfectly clean after 40,000 miles. If that was the case for me I would have taken pictures, because I would want everyone to know how great it is.

[1Canuck]

Originally Posted by Coleroad

The proof is not just oil in the can. It is how clean do the intake valves stay. Why does everyone want to dance around that? Obviously I don't have a oil induction problem. My intake is not covered with oil. Why the resistance to take valve pictures with the can installed? I'm not saying the catch can doesn't work. I am saying show the difference it does, or doesn't make as far as carbon buildup. Alice says the valves are perfectly clean after 40,000 miles. If that was the case for me I would have taken pictures, because I would want everyone to know how great it is.

Coleroad, you are swimming against the current. I like it. a few posts ago Elite said the new improved E2X is 95% efficient. previously it was a much lower claim of 35% if memory serves. (not going digging for that post).
Point is that catch cans are put on dirty side only until recently when it was determined that under certain conditions the clean side also injects oil.

Back to the point, let's see pictures where catch cans keep the valves "clean"