Ceramic brake pads

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

No you have not. You have changed the ratio of engine power to brake power, but you have not reduced the stopping distances from any given speed.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/20-be...nces-recorded/

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Sven59

http://www.motortrend.com/news/20-be...nces-recorded/

???

[Sven59]

Very light cars require big brakes. The 1LE stopped one foot shorter than the ZL1 but weighs 100s less. I am saying that as the hp goes up so does the size/capability of the brakes, it is not based strictly on the weight of the car.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Sven59

Very light cars require big brakes. The 1LE stopped one foot shorter than the ZL1 but weighs 100s less. I am saying that as the hp goes up so does the size/capability of the brakes, it is not based strictly on the weight of the car.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I don't understand how this relates to my statement regarding factory brakes.

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

I don't understand how this relates to my statement regarding factory brakes.

I am saying that if you increase the hp of the ZL1 significantly shouldn't you also increase the braking capability. I mean from the factory they know how much braking will be required to meet the intentions of the vehicle. So not only does the ZL1 have bigger brakes than the SS because of weight but also performance capability.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Sven59

Very light cars require big brakes. The 1LE stopped one foot shorter than the ZL1 but weighs 100s less. I am saying that as the hp goes up so does the size/capability of the brakes, it is not based strictly on the weight of the car.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

The reason the ZL1 takes longer to stop than the 1LE is because it HEAVY not because it has more horsepower. 60mph is 60mph regardless of whether you acheive the speed with 80hp or 800hp. The difference is the weight you are trying to stop.
This is oversimplified of course because there are a ton of other things that go into how fast a car stops but HP isn't one of them.

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by Thor142

The reason the ZL1 takes longer to stop than the 1LE is because it HEAVY not because it has more horsepower. 60mph is 60mph regardless of whether you acheive the speed with 80hp or 800hp. The difference is the weight you are trying to stop.
This is oversimplified of course because there are a ton of other things that go into how fast a car stops but HP isn't one of them.

I wonder why then the 2017 ZL1 has bigger brakes than the 5th gen but is lighter?

[flipstyledsm22]

I have another question about brakes. I was told that ceramic brake pads will require more braking pressure... meaning I will have to stay on the brake pedal longer, or mash on it harder to stop at a great amount of speed. Will this eventually lead to warped rotors, since they are not carbon ceramic based?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Sven59

I am saying that if you increase the hp of the ZL1 significantly shouldn't you also increase the braking capability. I mean from the factory they know how much braking will be required to meet the intentions of the vehicle. So not only does the ZL1 have bigger brakes than the SS because of weight but also performance capability.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

HP has NOTHING to do with stopping distance. A 60 to 0 stopping distance has nothing to do with 0 to 60 times.

The bigger brakes on the ZL1 are driven by price point, weight and performance. The six pot brakes on the ZL1 are not designed to stop the car faster. They are designed to provide more consistent braking in extended use, i.e. driving on a road course. The stopping distance is longer in the ZL1 due to weight, but also due to the limited traction patch of the tires. We could put 747 brakes on a Camaro and the stopping distances would not be all that different. Once your reach the maximum traction of the tires, bigger brakes become irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Thor142

The reason the ZL1 takes longer to stop than the 1LE is because it HEAVY not because it has more horsepower. 60mph is 60mph regardless of whether you acheive the speed with 80hp or 800hp. The difference is the weight you are trying to stop.
This is oversimplified of course because there are a ton of other things that go into how fast a car stops but HP isn't one of them.

Correct. The 1LE has bigger front tires as well and the bul of stopping is in the front.

Originally Posted by flipstyledsm22

I have another question about brakes. I was told that ceramic brake pads will require more braking pressure... meaning I will have to stay on the brake pedal longer, or mash on it harder to stop at a great amount of speed. Will this eventually lead to warped rotors, since they are not carbon ceramic based?

Warped rotors are sort of a myth. It can happen, but the vast majority of thee time it is pad transfer. When the brake pad gets really hot it leave a bit of pad material on the rotor. If the material is deposited unevenly, it pulsates as though the rotor were warped.

If you have less braking power due to aa pad change, you will have to push harder on the brake pedal to attempt to stop in the same distance as thee more aggressive pad. Once the pedal is on the flow the point is moot. The rel issue will be the lower heat threshold of the softer pad creating the potential for more pad transfer.

[Thor142]

Originally Posted by Sven59

I wonder why then the 2017 ZL1 has bigger brakes than the 5th gen but is lighter?

Because race car. Getting good lap times isn't just about horse power. It's also how fast you can slow down to cornering speed. Braking later and slowing down faster is huge. All the press releases from GM brag about track capability so braking is a big part of that.

BTW the rotor size is slightly bigger on Gen 6 but I don't think anyone knows about pad size yet. Its still six piston/four piston Brembros

[Sven59]

Exactly, more hp = higher speeds which require more braking. Rotor size bigger, car lighter, got it. Couldn't they save money by using the same brakes as 5th gen if lighter.

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

HP has NOTHING to do with stopping distance. A 60 to 0 stopping distance has nothing to do with 0 to 60 times.

The bigger brakes on the ZL1 are driven by price point, weight and performance. The six pot brakes on the ZL1 are not designed to stop the car faster. They are designed to provide more consistent braking in extended use, i.e. driving on a road course. The stopping distance is longer in the ZL1 due to weight, but also due to the limited traction patch of the tires. We could put 747 brakes on a Camaro and the stopping distances would not be all that different. Once your reach the maximum traction of the tires, bigger brakes become irrelevant.



Correct. The 1LE has bigger front tires as well and the bul of stopping is in the front.



Warped rotors are sort of a myth. It can happen, but the vast majority of thee time it is pad transfer. When the brake pad gets really hot it leave a bit of pad material on the rotor. If the material is deposited unevenly, it pulsates as though the rotor were warped.

If you have less braking power due to aa pad change, you will have to push harder on the brake pedal to attempt to stop in the same distance as thee more aggressive pad. Once the pedal is on the flow the point is moot. The rel issue will be the lower heat threshold of the softer pad creating the potential for more pad transfer.

Higher hp equals higher performance, correct?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Sven59

Exactly, more hp = higher speeds which require more braking. Rotor size bigger, car lighter, got it. Couldn't they save money by using the same brakes as 5th gen if lighter.

No sir, more weight requires bigger brakes to dissipate the heat on a road course. The lap times for a well driven 1LE and a well driven ZL1 will be very close to the same over a large number of laps. The ZL1 will hands down get a few of the fastest laps and then begin to fade. The 1LE will be more consistent, not subject to heat soak, and in a 20 lap race... The ZL1 pushes more with the extra nose weight, the smaller front tires will get greasier than the 1LE, heat soak kicks in and power goes down, call it a drivers race.

[Sven59]

Lol, the ZL1 and 1LE have the same front tires and wheels. Why does the Z/28 have better brakes than ZL1 but lighter?