SMS Camaro to be produced (by Steve Saleen)

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by littlecammi

Let's remove the Steve Saleen factor from this discussion for just a moment.

What if every aftermarket "tuner" Camaro followed his formula? That is, they start with a 1SS Camaro (that they buy at a discount from GM) and charge $60K for it after adding a supercharger (on top of the stock block and heads), stiffen up the suspension, modify the exhaust, plus make various exterior (new fascias, hood and spoilers) and interior trim upgrades. Whose tuner Camaro with these mods is worth $60K? Yenko? Baldwin Motion?

Roush is able to charge a bit less for a lot of their modified Mustangs than the Saleen company charges. But that is because Roush doesn't replace the hood (they only add their own design scoop) and doesn't replace the rear fascia (they only add their own design rear spoiler). The Saleen Mustangs are easier to identify by their different body panels. Roush Mustangs need the unique vinyl tape striping that Roush adds to help tell their cars apart from standard Mustang GTs. I only bring this up lest someone propose that a Yenko Camaro would be priced more like a Roush than a Saleen. But the Yenko would be equipped more like the Saleens, if the Yenko included replacing the stock hood with the hood with the '67 'vette scoop and stinger.

Ummm.... Even the Roush Stage 1 features unique front and rear fascias (including taillight panel), unique spoiler, side skirts, window vents, basically all the same junk as a Saleen does. The difference is Roush is larger than Saleen, and they build way more of them, offer many different versions, and do more of their own manufacturing so hence some models are cheaper. There is NO mistaking a Roush with a regular GT.... In fact many Roush Models look more aggressive than their equivalent Saleens. That said, the Stage 1 is barely much more than a body kit and some MINOR boltons. Stage 2 adds more boltons and suspension bits, Stage 3 is where you finally get a Supercharger. They also have cheap V6 and Sport Models (stickers and body kits), in addition to the 427R and so forth (total of 14 models - some very limited editions) which are priced in the range of equivalent Saleen models.

Saleen however offers 7 models, 5 of which are Supercharged, and even the N/A models are cranked up compared to a Stock GT (such as a 390 hp 5 liter). Either way they all ain't cheap.

I guess my point is comparing price between the two is irrelevant, you need to get into the more heavily modified ones to be equivalent, and there the price is similar.

[Mr Twisty]

Might ask Mr. Guldstrand if he could see what he could do with it if you could get his head out from under that vette hood long enough to look!

He was on a Jay Leno vid, 80 year old kid lol. They don't make drivers like that anymore...And VERY intelligent guy.

Screw Saleen...Oh I already said that. Well, screw him again.

I don't know when weasel changed his name, maybe he weren't gettin no respekt from his kin-folk widda name like dat lol

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69

Screw Saleen...Oh I already said that. Well, screw him again.

YEAH!! He needs to see some of these

[Moose]

'garagelogic', you are well entitled to your opinions, and they are welcome here.

And it appears that you're a fan of Saleen, which is all fine and well.

That being said, there are many who are not fans of Saleen, for whatever the reason may be, and their opinions are welcome and respected.

I'd ask that everyone be respectful of each others opinions and not imply that opinions are based on ignorance, ie; "if you will actually take the time...".

This thread appears to be headed towards a "heated" discussion, () and I'd ask folks to think before posting, accept each others opinions, and accept the fact that everyone will have a different opinion and not jump to the conclusion that because ones opinion doesnt match what yours is, that they're ignorant.

Originally Posted by garagelogic

Okay, you know what, I refrained from saying anything in the “Saleen trashed the Camaro” thread, but enough is enough. While everyone is entitled to their own opinion and is free to buy whatever car they want and, if they desire to do so, have it massaged by an aftermarket tuner, some things need to be said.

One. If you watch the YouTube video where Steve Saleen was addressing the crowd at a gathering of Mustang aficionados, it is true that the Camaro was the focus of his humor. However, if you really believe that he was trying to take credit for the design and engineering of the car, then you are really, really reaching. Like others have already pointed out, he was simply stating that he “built” the Camaro used in the Transformers movie (which he did, based on the templates provided to him by GM, on a different cars chassis). What would you expect from someone who has been invited to speak to a bunch of Mustang owners? A diatribe about how great GM products are? How many of you on this forum, let alone at a gathering of Camaro-specific enthusiasts, poke fun and take pot-shots at the Mustang and Ford?

Two. I am confident that the vast majority of people who have said they would not buy a Saleen Camaro or purchase any of the parts he is going to offer for that car are not basing that decision off anything remotely related to how the final version of the Saleen Camaro will look/perform. They are basing their decision on the mere fact that, in the past, Saleen chose to build his cars around the Mustang platform. Although it is a very flimsy reason, so be it. However, I will let you know that the vast majority of the people who are likely to hold that opinion are not in the target demographic that Steve Saleen is going after, so I’m not sure that the money you don’t plan to spend on his products will ever be missed.

Three. I am a fan of the earlier fox-body based Saleen Mustangs but, like many others I know, I was not a big fan of a his SN-95 based cars and even less so of the 2005-2009 versions of the S197 platform. I consider his later cars too flashy, busy and over-the-top for my tastes.

Four. Saleen did/does a whole lot more than simply modify Mustangs. If you will actually take the time to read about the man and all the things he does, you’d be surprised on how much knowledge he has and what he has brought to the table in terms of aftermarket performance. If you think all that Saleen brings to the table is a body kit and some go-fast aftermarket goodies for Mustangs, then I suggest you take a look at the S7.

Five. From a business perspective, Steve is doing exactly what he needs to do to position his company for continued success and bring his own unique visions to the marketplace. Not only is this good for Steve Saleen, but it’s great for the domestic automobile industry as a whole. If you hold such a myopic view of things that you cannot see this, then I can do nothing but simply feel sorry for you.

[gsxrpilot]

Just for reference he produced a car that was suppose to be a racer. He is not "Shebly" and never will be! If you want a Z-28 Buy a ZR-1 crate motor and build your own! I worked for a S7 dealer that never got it's car.

[Milk 1027]

By the way. I think we all agree that this isn't purely because Saleen has such a huge history with the Mustang.
If Carol Shelby himself made his own version of the Camaro I would more than welcome it. It's just the fact that Steve Saleen's previous comments prove that he's just a greedy jerk going out to get people's money by expanding his repertoire.
And that's just my opinion.

[littlecammi]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

Comparing price between the Roush and Saleen tuner Mustangs is irrelevant, you need to get into the more heavily modified ones to be equivalent, and there the price is similar.

I am now so sorry that I included the final paragraph about some differences between Roush Mustangs and Saleen Mustangs that I have deleted it from my post. Roush versus Saleen really has nothing to do with the point I was trying to make. I initially included that paragraph hoping to prevent someone alse from bringing up Roush because they felt that I had overlooked Roush. Instead, including the paragraph caused Rogue Leader to focus on Roush versus Saleen and ignore the real question I was asking.

My point was this: SMS will add a supercharger to the stock block and heads of a 5.7L Challenger R/T (plus other stuff, of course) and charge $60K for it. Fairly obvious that SMS will be doing the same things to a 1SS Camaro and charge the same $60K for it. A lot of posters seem to dislike Saleen, so we need to eliminate him and SMS from the equation. So, other than SMS, whose tuner Camaro would you pay $60K for, if they left the LS3 block and heads totally stock and added a supercharger and the rest of their package?

Would anyone pay any tuner company $60K for a supercharged Camaro that doesn't even have a forged crank and forged connecting rods? If so, what legendary name would make it worth the money? Mustang owners are willing to pay more for models with the Shelby name on them. Is there a name that would make you pay big to have it on your tuner Camaro?

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by littlecammi

Would anyone pay any tuner company $60K for a supercharged Camaro that doesn't even have a forged crank and forged connecting rods? If so, what legendary name would make it worth the money? Mustang owners are willing to pay more for models with the Shelby name on them. Is there a name that would make you pay big to have it on your tuner Camaro?

I don't think that any real chevy tuner would charge $60K for a supercharger and no forged crank, connecting rods...etc.

[Tran]

Some posts have been removed. Please refrain from name calling. You're free to express your disinterest in anything Saleen related, but please post in a mature manner. No need for foul language, name calling or other unbecoming posts. Further posts of this type will be removed.

Thank you.

[littlecammi]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

I don't think that any real chevy tuner would charge $60K for a supercharger and no forged crank, connecting rods, etc.

Count on it! That's exactly what Steve Saleen has announced SMS is doing to the 5.7L Challenger R/T. And I guarantee that SMS will be doing the same thing to the 1SS Camaro once they have been out for several months and they can get them from GM at a discount. Roush and Saleen have been supercharging the 4.6L 3-valve Mustang GTs for years without forging the internals. It is very cost effective for tuners not to have to open up the stock motor.

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by littlecammi

Count on it! That's exactly what Steve Saleen has announced SMS is doing to the 5.7L Challenger R/T. And I guarantee that SMS will be doing the same thing to the 1SS Camaro once they have been out for several months and they can get them from GM at a discount. Roush and Saleen have been supercharging the 4.6L 3-valve Mustang GTs for years without forging the internals. It is very cost effective for tuners not to have to open up the stock motor.

You missed the part where I said Real Chevy Tuners

[littlecammi]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

You missed the part where I said Real Chevy Tuners

No, I didn't. Any tuner basically wants to get $30K for their appearance and performance package which includes bolting a supercharger to the stock block and heads. Any tuner includes every tuner, even real Chevy tuners. And they all start with the cheapest V8 model they can, so their $30K add-on doesn't push the total price over the $60K price point. That's why tuners start with the 4.6L Mustang GT (and not the 5.4L GT500) and that's why SMS is starting with the 5.7L Challenger R/T (and not the 6.1L SRT8). And you can darn sure bet that Chevy tuners will be starting with the 1SS Camaro and putting a supercharger on the stock block and heads and want to get that $30K additional for their package just like the rest.

And if someone like Lingenfelter does forge the internals before adding a twin screw supercharger, the deluxe model will cost a lot more than $60K.

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by littlecammi

No, I didn't. Any tuner basically wants to get $30K for their appearance and performance package which includes bolting a supercharger to the stock block and heads. Any tuner includes every tuner, even real Chevy tuners. And they all start with the cheapest V8 model they can, so their $30K add-on doesn't push the total price over the $60K price point. That's why tuners start with the 4.6L Mustang GT (and not the 5.4L GT500) and that's why SMS is starting with the 5.7L Challenger R/T (and not the 6.1L SRT8). And you can darn sure bet that Chevy tuners will be starting with the 1SS Camaro and putting a supercharger on the stock block and heads and want to get that $30K additional for their package just like the rest.

And if someone like Lingenfelter does forge the internals before adding a twin screw supercharger, the deluxe model will cost a lot more than $60K.

I guess only time will really tell what will happen. I still seriously doubt that most (excluding SMS) will charge that much for so little.

[Supermans]

Originally Posted by zebra

he also created the good guy

What's with all the Saleen bashing. Be glad he is making an upgraded Camaro, all the exposure and pictures of the Saleen Camaro on magazine covers no matter how gaudy and pimped out it may be will only be a positive for the re-birth of the new Camaro..

Here is a 1998 Saleen Mustang, one of my favorites.. I own a red 1998 Mustang by the way.. The excitement I had back then for the look of the Mustang is about the same as the one I have for this Camaro. as you can see they are both similar in their curves...