Sold the camaro to a dealer and now they want their money back.

[flipstyledsm22]

Every time I've bought a second hand vehicle, I never expected it to last forever. If a person is that concerned with past modifications, maintenance, upkeep, and relatively good driving behavior of a used vehicle, then they need to just buy new.

It's like buying an early 90's fox body and expecting the past owners to have never attempted a burnout in it, let alone run it into a ditch.

I don't see nothing wrong with bringing back a highly modified vehicle to its factory form to maximize your return profits. Many do it already because we know aftermarket parts don't increase the market value. you are better off taking all that shit off and piece selling it online to get back a little bit.

I guess, to each his own.

[90503]

Originally Posted by ron123

Here is a picture of Al Oppenheiser, Camaro chief engineer, looking at the underside of a Gen5 Camaro ...
- Note the area where a roll bar would likely be attached is all unibody with many holes from the factory.
- No body on frame construction in this area of the car.
- There are a couple dozen factory holes visible just in this one snapshot.
- Some of the large couple inch diameter holes have plastic plugs in them that go clear through to passenger compartment.


The Camaro roof also adds a lot to the solid structure of the Camaro.
For the Camaro convertible the factory actually does add frame to this underside area, but not on the coupe.
Maybe OP can get Al to give his seal-of-approval on the sale ;-)
Ron

Great post....I've been under my car and it looks like Swiss cheese, even without a roll-bar....

If there is no reportable crash that would cause damage to the "frame" (wherever/whatever) that part may be, I don't see how a few more roll-bar holes would be an issue....

I would like to hear from some of the suppliers or manufacturers of roll cages for these Camaros. Maybe they can explain what their products need for holes, if they are on a "frame part", do they cause "frame damage", the differences for convertibles (probably the most common users for tracking)....Are they legal, illegal, required to disclose at a sale..??.... etc....

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by ron123

Here is a picture of Al Oppenheiser, Camaro chief engineer, looking at the underside of a Gen5 Camaro ...
- Note the area where a roll bar would likely be attached is all unibody with many holes from the factory.
- No body on frame construction in this area of the car.
- There are a couple dozen factory holes visible just in this one snapshot.
- Some of the large couple inch diameter holes have plastic plugs in them that go clear through to passenger compartment.


The Camaro roof also adds a lot to the solid structure of the Camaro.
For the Camaro convertible the factory actually does add frame to this underside area, but not on the coupe.
Maybe OP can get Al to give his seal-of-approval on the sale ;-)
Ron

There are holes in the boxed area of the frame, your right. There are reasons for those holes (though I am not privy to them), and the frame was tested with those holes in place. It was not tested with the OP's holes in place. I know things are much different now then they were on older unibody type cars, but I would not be comfortable taking the roll bar out of our '69 at this point. It was a flexing mess before the bar and frame connectors were put in and I can only imagine what it would be like now if that stuff was removed. For everyday use, you might be right and the car would be fine, but if it gets played with or heaven forbid it gets in an accident, it is nothing i would want to be involved with.

[Baba]

Originally Posted by Freddy G

This is a very interesting thread.. I know lots people demod their car then trade back to the dealer, its not our responsibility to tell them the cars pervious history. Whatever is on the car proof is what they get. If im buying a used car that's all I get from the dealer as well. As of honesty, I'll do whatever it takes to get the most value for my car. If the dealer doesn't ask, I wont tell. simple as that. Dealer is buying a car from private seller, then they have to take the risk. Im not expecting to get my money back if I bought someone's car on Craigslist.

This is exactly why I won't buy a used car. No telling WTF has been done to a car. Either professionally or half-assed.

[Freddy G]

Originally Posted by Baba

This is exactly why I won't buy a used car. No telling WTF has been done to a car. Either professionally or half-assed.

Yep, Defiantly buy new if you want keep your car forever and treat it as a collector piece. Otherwise, no one can guarantee the history of it.

[CHMSC]

Originally Posted by Freddy G

Yep, that's why you have to buy new if you want keep your car forever and treat it as a collector piece. Otherwise, no one can guarantee the history of it.

That's not always the case. My first Camaro was "new" with over $10,000 in damage. Needless to say I made the dealer buy it back since they didn't disclose that to me when it was sold and then I ordered one from GM to make sure it didn't happen again.

[Freddy G]

Originally Posted by CHMSC

That's not always the case. My first Camaro was "new" with over $10,000 in damage. Needless to say I made the dealer buy it back since they didn't disclose that to me when it was sold and then I ordered one from GM to make sure it didn't happen again.

How did that happen tho? They sold you an used car as "New"?!! That's messed up. what was the mileage on it when "New"? And you didn't check the title and VIN? My guess would be dealer drop the car from the trailer when taking delivery, then fixed it up and sold to you as "new"?

[pbeyer2010]

Originally Posted by CHMSC

That's not always the case. My first Camaro was "new" with over $10,000 in damage. Needless to say I made the dealer buy it back since they didn't disclose that to me when it was sold and then I ordered one from GM to make sure it didn't happen again.

I gots to hear this story.......

[Memphis43]

Originally Posted by Freddy G

How did that happen tho? They sold you an used car as "New"?!! That's messed up. what was the mileage on it when "New"? And you didn't check the title and VIN? My guess would be dealer drop the car from the trailer when taking delivery, then fixed it up and sold to you as "new"?

They are supposed to have a customer sign a damage disclosure stating the damage.

However in this case if it had that amount of damage I would think the dealer would have written it off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by Freddy G

How did that happen tho? They sold you an used car as "New"?!! That's messed up. what was the mileage on it when "New"? And you didn't check the title and VIN? My guess would be dealer drop the car from the trailer when taking delivery, then fixed it up and sold to you as "new"?

Something like that, the car was most likely damaged on the lot or on a test drive, something along those lines. $10K in damage isn't hard to do these days between the cost of parts, the complexity of systems, and the cost of labor. Although, to sell the car as new, without any disclosure, while perhaps not illegal in this case (IDK), is certainly unethical.

[Freddy G]

Originally Posted by MrChrisLS3

Something like that, the car was most likely damaged on the lot or on a test drive, something along those lines. $10K in damage isn't hard to do these days between the cost of parts, the complexity of systems, and the cost of labor. Although, to sell the car as new, without any disclosure, while perhaps not illegal in this case (IDK), is certainly unethical.

Agreed, my friends Hyundai SUV claimed almost 6k for a rear end collision.. That dealer is really black hearted. I never liked dealers due to their lack of honesty on small stuff(ie hidden fees and shit). But this is next level.

[OrangeVert]

Originally Posted by flipstyledsm22

Every time I've bought a second hand vehicle, I never expected it to last forever. If a person is that concerned with past modifications, maintenance, upkeep, and relatively good driving behavior of a used vehicle, then they need to just buy new.

It's like buying an early 90's fox body and expecting the past owners to have never attempted a burnout in it, let alone run it into a ditch.

I don't see nothing wrong with bringing back a highly modified vehicle to its factory form to maximize your return profits. Many do it already because we know aftermarket parts don't increase the market value. you are better off taking all that shit off and piece selling it online to get back a little bit.

I guess, to each his own.

+1 !!!

[90503]

Originally Posted by flipstyledsm22

Every time I've bought a second hand vehicle, I never expected it to last forever. If a person is that concerned with past modifications, maintenance, upkeep, and relatively good driving behavior of a used vehicle, then they need to just buy new.

It's like buying an early 90's fox body and expecting the past owners to have never attempted a burnout in it, let alone run it into a ditch.

I don't see nothing wrong with bringing back a highly modified vehicle to its factory form to maximize your return profits. Many do it already because we know aftermarket parts don't increase the market value. you are better off taking all that shit off and piece selling it online to get back a little bit.

I guess, to each his own.

I agree with the above.

Plus, the dealer had two opportunities from two different inspections and appraisals that they performed to turn down the op's vehicle.....We don't know what the op was paid, but he was paid....

If a thrashed car turns up on a car lot that they advertise as a cream-puff, don't blame the guy who traded it in.

The dealer had their chance to inspect it (twice) before making a deal with the original owner...


If you are buying a car from a private party, it has always been advised to take the car to your own trusted mechanic for a look-see before buying.

[Mr. Stacy]

Originally Posted by Baba

This is exactly why I won't buy a used car. No telling WTF has been done to a car. Either professionally or half-assed.

Nothing wrong with most used cars that wouldn't be picked up in a good pre-purchase inspection. I don't mean a quick "once over" or a safety inspection, a real inspection. Most decent garages will do this for $200-$400 and they check everything. My garage would probably have given me the thumbs down on the OP's car.