2013 Mustang GT500 MEGA THREAD

[93TealCobra]

Originally Posted by hognutz

well you magazine race logic is odd. numbers that are out there

vir

Gt500 2:58
ZL1 2:52

vert is 3 seconds faster so 2:55???? so coupe would be what ??? how many seconds faster is it than the vert?

this is all gay internet racing though. without some kind of head to head everyone is guessing.

the thing that kill me is why dont' they just say man that is the nail in the coffen to the internet racer.

The fail is strong with you, son.

The 2013 vert is 3 seconds faster than the 2012 PP coupe on SEBRING, not on VIR.

That argument was put to rest 2 months ago.

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by oortcloud

Previously I thought the track pack was only $3k, but then I realized today that you can't get the track pack without the perf pack.

And I don't think you can take it to the track without a track pack.

If you're not out hot-lapping the thing for several hours, there's no reason to think it 'cant go to the track'.

Don't get me wrong, the more cooling the better, but this car (nor would the ZL1 w/o coolers) won't blow up after 30 minutes of driving.

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by BryanGoodson

All the bickering is priceless.. Let me add my .02.. They BOTH SUCK! (I could only afford a v6 haha )

i envy your payments

[htron50]

I really don't get it. The majority of 2013 GT500 and ZL1 owners will be very few in comparison to the amount of Mustangs and Camaro's actually in the road. Meanwhile, it is the majority of NON OWNERS of the 2013 GT500 and ZL1 who rant so much.

I really don't think the actual owners, like me, are bragging about our DREAM MACHINES. We are enjoying them. Just my .02. Oh, I will add, that just like ZL1 buyers "got a piece of history".... so will the compatriots who buy the 2013 GT500. And for every one who actually gets either, Congrats!


PS: See ya at the track! LOL!

[a_Username]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

What I'm saying is if you're in a race, wouldn't you want to be in the faster car? You mention beating the ZL1 by a half second in a perfect world. What about this world?

Yes, the GT500 has a noticeable advantage. If my only worry was beating the guy next to me, then yes, I'd choose the GT500. Of course, there's also a problem here: in this world, there's never a guarantee that I don't mess up or the driver beside me in his ZL1 is simply better than me.

[Bad@ssCamaro]

Originally Posted by htron50

I really don't get it. The majority of 2013 GT500 and ZL1 owners will be very few in comparison to the amount of Mustangs and Camaro's actually in the road. Meanwhile, it is the majority of NON OWNERS of the 2013 GT500 and ZL1 who rant so much.

I really don't think the actual owners, like me, are bragging about our DREAM MACHINES. We are enjoying them. Just my .02. Oh, I will add, that just like ZL1 buyers "got a piece of history".... so will the compatriots who buy the 2013 GT500. And for every one who actually gets either, Congrats!


PS: See ya at the track! LOL!

Are you going to let us know how you do?

[htron50]

Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro

Are you going to let us know how you do?

I'll be in the stands!!

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by a_Username

Yeah I forgot about the GT-R comparo.



I'm going to hold off judgement on what defines a horrible time for a GT500 until more than 3 rags post times or until some actual owners run it. The only way that is a horrible time is if mid 11s is the norm for the GT500. I'm not so sure that is going to be the case yet. Come on now mr. economist, you don't have a representative sample with only 3 data points. My only point is that the average driver is not going to be able to crank out mid 11s in a 660HP car; that's a lot of car to handle. And the fact that two of the rags posted 12.2 and 12.3 provides some evidence for that point.

In regards to your STi comment, it should't go in flames but I know it would too.

Very true, very true. However, I'm basing the notion that 12.3 is a horrible time on the fact that 12.3 is what some of these mags ran with 2011s and we have already seen an 11.6 and 11.8 at the same track on the same day. I don't know about you, but if i ran a 12.3 in the exact same car someone else just ran an 11.6 I would be embarrassed.

[oortcloud]

Originally Posted by 93TealCobra

The fail is strong with you, son.

The 2013 vert is 3 seconds faster than the 2012 PP coupe on SEBRING, not on VIR.

That argument was put to rest 2 months ago.

DBS is one you need to be failing. He was talking something about times at VIR being 3 seconds faster than a coupe. And then the coupe would be logically faster than the coupe.

[oldfriend]

Originally Posted by IOMZL1

None of this should really be a surprise to anyone. GT500 faster in the straight line as has been expected since the 650 HP announcement. GT500 not guaranteed in the 11s for every situation/driver because of traction. GT500 has improved handling over the 2012 model as expected. GT500 needs all the cooling it can get (no grille). GT500 has improved brakes that still don't seem quite as good as the ZL1.

Now what we need is a same track/day comparison between ZL1 and GT500 to see what happens on the track. Repeat with different types of tracks. When this happens remember the price of the GT500 with performance pack and the GG tax is moot.

Clearly the GT500 wins on the drag strip in most cases. What will happen at the road course and on the street (not drag racing, comfort and driveability) is not as black and white.

Both great cars, neither is perfect. Both will appeal to people differently. No clear winner will be crowned. And you don't have to buy either - many other options out there including the SLP cars.

I'd bet no matter what GM will respond in some degree with the ZL1 after 2013 and if that happens Ford may decide to do the same.

One can always make a call to Hennessey and ask for the HENNESSEY TWIN TURBO HPE 1000 , then what ?

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by Modern07

Hmmmm....Stage 2?

No - (oh God - don't start a rumor!)

2013 ZL1 convertible CTF. Haven't named him yet - but thinking along the lines of "BroZeke V 2.0" -- (...yeah, I know - I suck......)

Any thoughts for a name?

[UBERJIM]

Let me ask a few questions regarding autocross racing since I'm not a fan of 1/4 mile. I won't offend by elaborating.

Let me preface with some specs.

Chevrolet Camaro ZL1: 588hp, 1838kg
Paganini Zonda C12 S: 555hp, 1250kg
Lamborghini Murcielago LP670-4 SuperVeloce: 670hp, 1664kg

1. Who would win: ZL1 or Zonda?
2. Who would win: ZL1 or Murcielago?
3. Why did you choose that car?

Now let me guess your answer. 1. Zonda. 2. Murcielago. 3. Power/weight ratio, AWD (along with their super car affiliation).

Now net me tell you that the correct answer to 1 and 2 is the ZL1. See link:
http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html
How can this be!! This is the answer to 3. Because of suspension technology (let's assume that the super cars sprung for decent tires at those prices and, therefore, they made little difference). The amount of technology Chevrolet has put into the ZL1 suspension is phenomenal.

I say all of this because you can't rule the ZL1 out just based on horsepower weight comparisions to the GT500. The amount of technology in the ZL1 suspension is much greater than the electronically switchable, 2 stage damping rate of the GT500. Heck, switchable rate dampeners have been on the market for years. The only difference with the GT500 is you can do it from the driver's seat instead of having to go under the hood or under the rear of your car to make the adjustment. Even at that, it still isn't new technology. The ZL1 is a continuously adjustable PID (Proportional Integral Derivative) feedback loop based MR (Magnetorheological) fluid technology. It makes suspension dampener changes in the order of 100 times per second based on road conditions. This is something to be reckoned with on the track.

I'm not trying to take anything away from the GT500. It is impressive on paper. It could very well walk away from the ZL1. However, just based on the information we have, nobody can tell. Only a track day will decide.

[fbodfather]

Originally Posted by htron50

I really don't get it. The majority of 2013 GT500 and ZL1 owners will be very few in comparison to the amount of Mustangs and Camaro's actually in the road. Meanwhile, it is the majority of NON OWNERS of the 2013 GT500 and ZL1 who rant so much.

I really don't think the actual owners, like me, are bragging about our DREAM MACHINES. We are enjoying them. Just my .02. Oh, I will add, that just like ZL1 buyers "got a piece of history".... so will the compatriots who buy the 2013 GT500. And for every one who actually gets either, Congrats!


PS: See ya at the track! LOL!

A very astute and well-thought-out post.

And - in my opinion: True.


Further -- I'm very wary of the poster who doesn't really post what he/she drives - or where they live..........wonder why that is????

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

WOW!

Side-by-side, same-day, same road course will be very interesting. Ford is surely nervous. Remember, although there was LOTS of hoopla at Atlanta, no 'Ring times were released after they spent a considerable amount of time over there.

Sounds like the '13 GT500 will NOT match an '11 in autoX, contrary to one of the focal points in Ford's press release earlier last week. And blaming that result on the Torsen? Without it (for those who understand its technology), something as powerful but incorrectly weighted as the GT500 wouldn't stand a chance of putting all that torque to the ground. And with a Torsen, that 9% power loss on the dyno frankly lacks credibility (unless a tune was administered?). GM/SLP used the Torsen in their Firehawk, to great effect.

BTW, best totally STOCK runs for Vettes, as per Corvette Forum:

Z06 = 10.981 @ 128.90
ZR1 = 10.664 @ 132.92

Good luck with those numbers.

Autox? Both the zl1 and gt500 will be pretty poor fits for autox. Do you mean road racing? Also, the ford gt 'ring time was done by a magazine, not ford. Ford has never done any official lap times on the 'ring with any car.