[Number 3]

Originally Posted by DisturbedSS

Shew...I was wondering where the Tesla forum was hiding....

just to play along....
So a Chevy volt starts at 34k and a Toyota corolla or Nissan sentra start at 18K. Both about the same in quality and size.

So youre paying 16K upfront for "gasoline savings"...sounds prudent to me. I guess better than the 12-16 year break even buying solar panels outright for your house. Go green by spending extra buckets of green!

And yes people are sheep...they all go running to buy electric cars when gas prices are inflated or a fabricated crisis occurs and dump gas guzzlers en masse. Now all we see are cars coming out with more HP, year after year with worse mileage numbers (think trucks) because gas prices are low. Get the sheep shearing clippers out.

Your point is valid, but use better numbers. Yes you could compare a base Cruze to an LT Volt, but that isn't quite fair. Trim to trim is a better comparison. But interesting that you immediately went to Toyota and Nissan to compare to not Chevrolet.

Cruze LT - $22,325
Volt LT - $34,095

Volt LT Final after tax credit - $26,595

So you are pre paying $4,170 for fuel, assuming you don't use any and many Volt owners use very little. It's a game for them, just like 0 to 60 is for us.

So even at $2 per gallon, you have just over 2,000 gallons to make up the difference.

At 30 mpg for a Cruze that would be 60,000 miles or 4 to 5 years. Realistically the Cruze will do better as it is rated at 30/40 City/Highway, but you get the point.

So to the other point made, $2 per gallon isn't the best time for an EV. But there will certainly be that time. It's coming.

And yes, right now going green costs $$$. Batteries aren't cheap. And 200 plus miles of range requires a LOT of battery.

[BahamaTodd]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Unless Elon believes selling near prototype cars to the public is ok.

Tesla has been doing that from the beginning.

[Genesis7]

Only 2 charging stations in the whole city where I live, ugly shit design costing like German lux plus is an electric car with no soul. What a ****ing question is that? LOL

[RenegadeXR]

Originally Posted by Number 3

So even at $2 per gallon, you have just over 2,000 gallons to make up the difference.

At 30 mpg for a Cruze that would be 60,000 miles or 4 to 5 years.

Even with the cheap gas prices, as you mentioned, it makes good sense from a money economics perspective to buy an EV because the vehicle prices are going down. Even more so when the Bolt comes out soon.

Now for my own personal rant, which is a little far out maybe but also doesn't really contain any ideas that haven't been stated by somebody before:

Then there's the whole geopolitical aspect of energy independence. This is a really big goal that every country should aim for. Adequate energy to handle infrastructure, including vehicles on the road, should not even be on the radar as a probable cause for nations getting involved in international conflicts. I won't necessarily cite the U.S. as one such country doing this, but we definitely consume a lot more oil than we have access to. It would just be nice not to have any rational reason to believe that oil independence would affect our motivations abroad, regardless of what one's personal beliefs are.

Still, I feel like in the long term, nobody really knows what will do more damage to the world over time: Burning fossil fuels directly in a car (which is an obvious, observable thing) or lithium ion battery pack waste (recycling won't be enough to offset everything) and potentially burning some form of fossil fuel to provide that electricity at a power plant (with is a less obvious, in-observable thing.)

Until we create more efficient solar panels and forms of green energy, it's going to be really hard to say that EV's are a clear winner. However, the cars coming out today are a step in the right direction and will probably look pretty primitive in 20-30 years time. As with any progress, though, you need to start somewhere.

[ChevyRules]

What also needs to be done is to clean up the batteries themselves, not just what to do them when they are used up. It's a dirty business to make EV's. From mining the materials and ship them around the world for them to get processed and manufactured into a battery.

It's great and all if you don't want to use gas or diesel because of the emissions, but it's tiny compared to the pollution that went into making your EV.

[RenegadeXR]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

IMHO despite me not liking the grille-less design, I still prefer its looks over the Bolt.

I think Tesla really missed the mark with the front end design. Hopefully it gets changed before production.

Take note Tesla: There are ICE-powered mid and rear engine cars out there that obviously don't have front grills either, but they manage to look a lot better. As some people pointed out during the unveiling event months ago, something like a Porsche front would actually look good on the Model 3.

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by thickstunalex

I'm an astronautical engineer

That is awesome!

[DisturbedSS]

Originally Posted by Skerj

Where are you seeing worse fuel numbers? Mine have all gotten better; 1994 F150 5.0 11 and 15, 2005 Dodge Dakota 4.7 14 and 19, 2011 Ram 1500 5.7 14 and 19. Current trucks are putting out 15ish and 21ish for 4x4 models, not counting diesel.

People are buying gas guzzler trucks and high performance cars more then ever before - anything under 20MPH is a gas guzzler whether it was 18 this year then 19 the next.

Every car commercial now on TV shows a vehicle racing down an empty city street or highway, equating "fun" with speeding and sharp turns - not exactly promoting gas savings. I almost laughed when Nissan was trying to sell the public on how sporty and "fast" the new Altimas were...silliest advertising ever.

I run across the same grey Altima here 3 times a week and the guy driving always makes it a point to try and pass/race me. And every time I throttle back - a LOT - to make it seem that he actually has 1 of those "speedy" Altimas in the commercial, that I cant seem to catch up with. Cheap entertainment.

[DisturbedSS]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Your point is valid, but use better numbers. Yes you could compare a base Cruze to an LT Volt, but that isn't quite fair. Trim to trim is a better comparison. But interesting that you immediately went to Toyota and Nissan to compare to not Chevrolet.

Cruze LT - $22,325
Volt LT - $34,095

Volt LT Final after tax credit - $26,595

So you are pre paying $4,170 for fuel, assuming you don't use any and many Volt owners use very little. It's a game for them, just like 0 to 60 is for us.

So even at $2 per gallon, you have just over 2,000 gallons to make up the difference.

At 30 mpg for a Cruze that would be 60,000 miles or 4 to 5 years. Realistically the Cruze will do better as it is rated at 30/40 City/Highway, but you get the point.

So to the other point made, $2 per gallon isn't the best time for an EV. But there will certainly be that time. It's coming.

And yes, right now going green costs $$$. Batteries aren't cheap. And 200 plus miles of range requires a LOT of battery.

Those tax credits disappear in relevance very fast when you are at a certain income level, so doesnt apply to everyone. I used Nissans as a comparison because I pay little to no attention to that category of car - that and I drove Nissans for many years when kids arrived (what a sad, dark, boring time!..cars, not the kids..ha)

Weve had electric cars available forever and forever they still cost way more than the equivalent gas model. Honestly Tesla has the best chance at bringing cost down to gas powered levels if they become more mainstream. They also dont have the oil companies paying them off (shady deals you KNOW happened with politicians) to throttle advances in battery technology since their plan is to be the manufactured source of that technology.

If that day happens the mid-low price category gas powered cars will take the biggest hit, with the high performance category being little changed. Is someone really going to pay over 100K for the S model?...probably, but Teslas plan to try and cram this into some sort of performance category is a HUGE mistake. 100K+ sedan...really? Yea, skip the Camaros, Corvettes, Hellcats and GT500s, I want a fast, ninja like sedan to show off to my buddies at the track!...LOL. Leave the old man performance sedans to the Mercedes and Lincolns of the world.

We are still MANY years away from this equilibrium. I hope Tesla exceeds in a big way, we need to shuttle away from oil produced in other countries.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Forget Tesla. Just get the Bolt. Unless you are hung up on Tesla simply for the sake of Elon, there is no reason to wait two years when you can get a Bolt in in a couple of months.

This. Tesla just admitted if you order a Model 3 now, you won't be getting it until 2018 at the earliest. That's if everything goes well.

Keep in mind you'll also be preordering a car from a company that is constantly running into financial issues and doesn't have the resources or experience to mass produce cars, not to mention they love introducing a car at a price point then dropping the cheapest model after a few months, leaving only the more expensive, higher trims.

[Corner carver]

Originally Posted by MiamiBlueCamaro

Not the model 3, this maybe

That's the first tesla I've laid eyes on that got those enthusiast juices flowing

[HumanWiki]

Originally Posted by Corner carver

That's the first tesla I've laid eyes on that got those enthusiast juices flowing

That car, by even Musk's word, was an epic failure. They were always breaking down and were just a pain.

They look great, but they're basically just a battery powered Lotus.


http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...as-a-disaster/

[Corner carver]

Originally Posted by HumanWiki

That car, by even Musk's word, was an epic failure. They were always breaking down and were just a pain.

They look great, but they're basically just a battery powered Lotus.


http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...as-a-disaster/

Ha! I thought 'lotus' just looking the design language; didn't notice the badge till after the fact

Edit: just read the link... They did a pretty thorough job destroying an already wicked awesome car...

[MLL67RSSS]

Just had a terrible Tesla crash here in Indy (a "S" model not a "3" obviously). Witnesses said it was speeding, lost control on a slight curve and hit a tree/building. Car was torn up and immediately burst into flames as exploding, burning batteries were flung around. Witnesses said it looked like fireworks exploding all over. The intense fire and exploding batteries everywhere hampered rescuers it getting to the victims and extricating them. Horribly the driver died a the scene, passenger when they finally got him to a Hospital (RIP, happened just after 1:00am Thurs probably on way home after the Cubs game).
Guess you don't want to have a serious crash in a vehicle full of Lithium-Ion batteries.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/l...-downtown-indy

Pic of car and exploding batteries thrown from vehicle.