Why is Z/28 more heralded that the SS?

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Gramps69Z

Very nice!

Thank you. Being a full time student doesn't leave much time or money but it is coming together slowly.

[02SS#214]

All I am going to say is that any car can be an SS, only a camaro can be a Z28.

[ChrisBlair]

Originally Posted by Orange2010SS

Just curious why everyone on the board is always so excited about the z/28 over the SS? I'll explain why I'm asking...maybe it's performance related or I'm just not well educated enough in the differences between Z/28 and SS.

I owned a 1997 Z/28 that was a badass ride. However, the SS was the upgrade to the z/28. This was true for all 4th gen Camaros right? You would see the z/28 everywhere but the SS was far more rare and more expensive with beefed up performance parts.

Then the 5th GEN came out and all the V8s are called an SS whether it's a 1SS or a 2SS based on the options you want. Performance is the same. Yet there is no z/28 (yet). Why did GM/Chevy not just call the standard V8 Camaro a z/28 and instead just went with SS? This confuses most of my friends and family who think I really splurged to get the SS when the z/28 was always the more affordable of the V8 Camaro. They don't realize there is no z/28 for the 5th GEN.

Anyway, just thought I'd ask the experts here, because I honestly don't know. I do realize that in the 1st GEN there was the V6 and the V8 SS and the z/28 wasn't introduced until '69? Maybe that's why the 5th gen is SS since it's the re-birth? There were no SS in the 3rd gen right? I owned a 1986 Berlinetta back in the high school days. LOL. 2.8L baby!! Thanks to this site, I found the '86 Berlinetta was actually quite rare

I bet this question was answered over a hundred times by now!

[wildpaws]

Originally Posted by ChrisBlair

I bet this question was answered over a hundred times by now!

A hundred times? Try THOUSANDS!!!
Clyde

[OldScoolCamaro]

yadda yadda yadda....over the years GM and Chevy got all ass backward. They placed SS badges on alot of models. Some of which they should have not been. The Z28 got trumped out by an SLP upgrade SS? It was an agreement, an enterprise. Not in the best interest of the Camaro as a whole. As a result the Camaro died because of lack of forsight and interest by it's manufacturer. It was stale and not contemporary within the buyers interest. The competitior stayed focused and continued to meet the market demand and still remains a lineage. So sorry for us Camaro guys.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

yadda yadda yadda....over the years GM and Chevy got all ass backward. They placed SS badges on alot of models. Some of which they should have not been. The Z28 got trumped out by an SLP upgrade SS? It was an agreement, an enterprise. Not in the best interest of the Camaro as a whole. As a result the Camaro died because of lack of forsight and interest by it's manufacturer. It was stale and not contemporary within the buyers interest. The competitior stayed focused and continued to meet the market demand and still remains a lineage. So sorry for us Camaro guys.

That's why I think it would be a mistake for the Z28 to use the LS3. It would just blur the lines even more. The Z28 needs to be a stand alone car to the rest of the Camaro line up.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

That's why I think it would be a mistake for the Z28 to use the LS3. It would just blur the lines even more. The Z28 needs to be a stand alone car to the rest of the Camaro line up.

Ok. Keyword is validation. LS3, LS7, LS9, LSA...none of which have had any mechanical changes that have changed the motors performance. Adding GMPP items, cross changing parts, or beefing up in any way will take a large effort by GM to re-validate the motor. I am not convinced they have the desire to do so. All of the LS family engines have been twisted and improved to make astounding levels of HP.....aftermarket. The LS3 can easily make HP numbers as a stock LS7. But, a stock 426 HP LS3 aint' gonna cut the mustard in a Z28. And a magical HP advertised increase such as has been done before within the GM camp on a motor that has not been upgraded won't do it either. There needs to be a concerted effort to A) Mix and match a LS3 up to snuff...or do whatever ot takes to put a LS7 in a Z28 to make it viable. There are no other silver bullets to be found within the LS family.

[2cnd chance]

I agree.

If they did not increase power in the GS Vette LS3 they are just not going to do it. The LS engines are done in the not too distant future. A 5Gen Z28 either has a now available LS7 or a new GenV engine, or the 5Gen will be the only Camaro Generation without a Z28, and that would just be WRONG!

[OldScoolCamaro]

Agreed. Either they make a bold step and take a LS in one fashion or another to the skunk works and tweek it, or they sit on their hands and wait until the new DI motors arrive in a model upgrade. Shall we sit idly by and be complacent and satisfied while Ford has already raised the anty? What say you Chevy?

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

Ok. Keyword is validation. LS3, LS7, LS9, LSA...none of which have had any mechanical changes that have changed the motors performance. Adding GMPP items, cross changing parts, or beefing up in any way will take a large effort by GM to re-validate the motor. I am not convinced they have the desire to do so. All of the LS family engines have been twisted and improved to make astounding levels of HP.....aftermarket. The LS3 can easily make HP numbers as a stock LS7. But, a stock 426 HP LS3 aint' gonna cut the mustard in a Z28. And a magical HP advertised increase such as has been done before within the GM camp on a motor that has not been upgraded won't do it either. There needs to be a concerted effort to A) Mix and match a LS3 up to snuff...or do whatever ot takes to put a LS7 in a Z28 to make it viable. There are no other silver bullets to be found within the LS family.

If Ford can modify their 5.0 to the 302, why can't Chevy modify the LS3. I mean at the least, a modified LS3 in the Z28 may work out. If they wanted to do the bare minimum to make the Z28 have higher HP but not piss off the Vette guys, then why couldn't they do it?

Like I said before, the greatest Camaro ever doesn't even get its own engine. It's a transplant from another car. Wtf is up with that?

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

If Ford can modify their 5.0 to the 302, why can't Chevy modify the LS3. I mean at the least, a modified LS3 in the Z28 may work out. If they wanted to do the bare minimum to make the Z28 have higher HP but not piss off the Vette guys, then why couldn't they do it?

Like I said before, the greatest Camaro ever doesn't even get its own engine. It's a transplant from another car. Wtf is up with that?

Obviously GM has "more than" learned its lesson on being frugal.

[LOWDOWN]

The rationale, or better stated as "Business Case", at this moment for a "unique" Z28 engine that has to pass all the hoops 'n hurdles in place today (vs. 1966-7) for an engine with a very finite life expectancy in a Gen-5 Camaro, simply doesn't exist...

So..."off-the-shelf" is the only answer, unless and until the next-Gen SBC (aka LT1 family) appears. Which should make their debut in the upcoming C-7 Vette and next-Gen trucks.

Could a Corvette-inspired high-horse n/a LT1 be readied for the final act of the Gen-5 Camaro as a Z28 motor-vator? I suppose so...

Failing that, "what's on the shelf", as an LS-based OEM-ready engine? And Chevy Performance (LS varient) crate engines don't count. Which leaves LS3 (SS-1LE)/LS7/LSA (ZL1)/LS9 (NGH)

Naturally-aspirated, high-horse certified/validated choices, for a vehicle with only MY '13.5-'14-'15 ahead, are few at this time.

If emissions compliance for the LS7 in a car the size/weight of the Camaro is a genuine issue, then our best bet for a Gen-5 ZEE is an early arrival of the LT1...

[Bhobbs]

How would emissions be any harder for the Camaro than the Corvette?

[LOWDOWN]

Well, idle test is marginal (source elsewhere on this forum), and added curb weight has to be accelerated...