Car shows and the great divide

[Peter]

I would concider my self pretty savvy when it comes to car shows. I go to probably over 20 a year and I am seeing a divide when it comes to shows and how they are ran. With my car I have added it up always entering a modified class. I have taken 22 first place trophies, 1 best of show, 2 best interior, 1 most modified and this is out of a total 26 total shows. I have never taken a 2nd or 3rd place. You know what is in common with the 4 shows that I did not place in... They where all hosted by a car club, they where also the only 4 shows I went to that where hosted by car clubs.

Seem that car club car shows are the good old boys type of car show. If it don't have a big motor small rims with wide tires and a lot of chrome it is crap. Modified means a custom motor and tubbed, with trac bars and a roll cage. Ha fiberglass custom body kit audio that just adds weight and is worthless mentality.

I have started noticing a trend, my car his highly modified interior and exterior and you would think that a modified class would judge on thinking outside the box with modifying your car. Every show I would get 0 points since my car had a wrap or at best half points. Why it is an exterior of the car? I also would not get many points for the interior even though I have everything modified. You know the winners of the show in the modified class would be someone with rims lip kit and motor work. Interior and paint would stock but they would win... How is that a modified car.

Also why is it a lot of shows that will not give you or let you see the score sheet. I think that score sheets should be available for everyone to see before the show. Also how can you use a the same score sheet for stock cars as for modified cars. Should there not be points for your modifications and the quality of the modification.

I wi post more later I'm in the car. I would like to know your all input on car shows.

[Overflow]

I go to tons of car shows/meets. On average, I got to 5 or 6 a month, but I usually work photography. But unfortunately, I do see where you're coming from. I see cars getting robbed of their trophies by cars that shouldn't have won.

Before I posted, I honestly went to your build thread and made sure you weren't butthurt because your Camaro looked like a POS. But you have a very nice car.

[Peter]

Also the car club people seem to be "elitests" sticking there noise up at the new generation of cars and "tuner" people. By means I am not a tuner but I have respect for those people and for the most part those people like a car not matter any make or model. The the American car club guy looks down on anything that is not American or a class or muscle car and that is just truly sad and closed minded.

[Overflow]

.. Trust me.. I totally realize that most muscle car owner look down on imports. I can't tell you how many Camaro owners have said to me, " You own a Maxima! Why are you on Camaro5?! ".

[Rhyder]

I dont see whats so surprising...I mean people who join car clubs tend to gravitate to the clubs who like the same things they like.

If a club who likes a car to be chromed over as a rule, they obviously would grade with that tendency.

If I like brunette in particular, and you get two women that are pretty much tricked out, but one is blond and one is blond...I'd pick the brunette as thats the style I like.

If you've noticed this in every club sponsored show, then just dont enter any more club sponsored show's.

[KMPrenger]

Don't worry about it man. Your car is a pretty awesome creation, but no matter what some people won't be able to appreciate what you've done. The fact that your car has a V6 or that your mods are mostly all audio/visual is enough for some people to pass without a second look.

But I'd love to see your Camaro. You are located only a few hours from me. I hope to see your car around sometime!

[Peter]

Originally Posted by Rhyder

I dont see whats so surprising...I mean people who join car clubs tend to gravitate to the clubs who like the same things they like.

If a club who likes a car to be chromed over as a rule, they obviously would grade with that tendency.

If I like brunette in particular, and you get two women that are pretty much tricked out, but one is blond and one is blond...I'd pick the brunette as thats the style I like.

If you've noticed this in every club sponsored show, then just dont enter any more club sponsored show's.

Yes I understand that from being in club stand point but when you are hosting a car show that people are paying money to enter you should have a non bi est opinion and judge on the facts of the car, not on what your personal opinion says.

And I am not going to enter shows anymore that are hosted by older or muscle car clubs. I mean really should the older generation of car lovers not be passing this down to the younger people not sticking up their noises at them. I know some of you this might be hard to do with how old you are, lol, but think back when you were in your late teens and early 20s you loved cars and you didnt have alot of money to get what you really wanted or do what you really to do to your car but you got by and worked on what you had and made it your own but you still loved the cars that you couldnt efford.

[Peter]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Don't worry about it man. Your car is a pretty awesome creation, but no matter what some people won't be able to appreciate what you've done. The fact that your car has a V6 or that your mods are mostly all audio/visual is enough for some people to pass without a second look.

But I'd love to see your Camaro. You are located only a few hours from me. I hope to see your car around sometime!

Come up some time, I work at creative car audio just off of nifong and providence.

[Peter]

Originally Posted by Overflow

.. Trust me.. I totally realize that most muscle car owner look down on imports. I can't tell you how many Camaro owners have said to me, " You own a Maxima! Why are you on Camaro5?! ".

I know I have gotten that on jeep forums, why cant someone just be here for the love of the car and for the love of the art that is vehicles. Do people not realize that the look of the car is the least important factor of it, it is about making what ever you own yours, transforming it into your vehicle. Me personally I could care less if I have a 1000hp car with a blower, nitrous, 15 in wide tires, ect but you know what I love looking at them, I think of them as a work of art in mechanical form. This person spent all this time and effort to make it there own, is it what I would do no but that is what makes a car show worth going to.

But when a show strays from the true intention of what a car show is, is when it falters and is doomed to fail. Take for instance the show I went to today. I was in 2010+ Modified, I told the lady at the front registration that this is my daily driver and it is a highly modified car. So I went in that class, knowing that they have a class called daily driver, because when I think of a daily driver for the most part is a stockish car with higher miles and wear via daily use. I started looking around at the show the 3 modifications that I seen done in the class I was in was wheels and tires, lip kit and engine modifications. The car the took best in class was a 2013 zl1 with a lip kit and engine mods that was all but he was in a modified class. The car next to me was completely stock but plasti dipped wheels and around the tail lights and did a motor swap but everything else was stock. I dont think a single person had really any interior mods but may be some neon floor lights.

The judges that came to my car this is sad and funny. They where club members of the hosting car club, the car next to me that was stock wit the motor swap they had to spend at least 10 to 15 mins on this car. My car probably about 5 mins, I was parked under a tree in the grass and I got docked points because a leaf fell into my trunk and one of the judges said hes going to have to dock points because of it and there was a couple of grass clippings in the floor board. Also they did not ask one question about any "Modifications" that where done to the car. They spent 90% of the time just looking over if the car was clean on the engine and exterior and I told them the engine bay and everything will not be great this is a daily driver and I just drove 2.5 hours to get here. I also have a full build book about the car they didnt care about it at all that I tried to show them the quality of the mods and they spent about less then 30 seconds looking at the interior. Also the one judge just kept asking the other judge how he scored my car and they just wrote down the same points.

So hey I get it if your a car club that likes big muscle cars and wants a show about big muscle cars then label it that but dont take peoples money and time then judge them on a predigests because its not what you like.

[PYROLYSIS]

With all those trophys I wouldn't worry about not getting one at a few car shows. I see what you are saying but maybe some of it could be chalked up to different taste. The good old boy car shows aren't the ones you want a trophy from anyway. Even though I am a hardcore Camaro guy I can appreciate different makes. I hope I always remember that I've driven a Saturn four door and many V6 Camaros.

[Peter]

Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS

With all those trophys I wouldn't worry about not getting one at a few car shows. I see what you are saying but maybe some of it could be chalked up to different taste. The good old boy car shows aren't the ones you want a trophy from anyway. Even though I am a hardcore Camaro guy I can appreciate different makes. I hope I always remember that I've driven a Saturn four door and many V6 Camaros.

lol right on, don't get me wrong I don't go to shows only looking for a win but at least keep it fair. Plus look at the older even 90's v8 camaros I would put a new stock v6 up against a 90s stock v8 It would be a good show I bet.

[ChrisBlair]

Originally Posted by Peter

I would concider my self pretty savvy when it comes to car shows. I go to probably over 20 a year and I am seeing a divide when it comes to shows and how they are ran. With my car I have added it up always entering a modified class. I have taken 22 first place trophies, 1 best of show, 2 best interior, 1 most modified and this is out of a total 26 total shows. I have never taken a 2nd or 3rd place. You know what is in common with the 4 shows that I did not place in... They where all hosted by a car club, they where also the only 4 shows I went to that where hosted by car clubs.

Seem that car club car shows are the good old boys type of car show. If it don't have a big motor small rims with wide tires and a lot of chrome it is crap. Modified means a custom motor and tubbed, with trac bars and a roll cage. Ha fiberglass custom body kit audio that just adds weight and is worthless mentality.

I have started noticing a trend, my car his highly modified interior and exterior and you would think that a modified class would judge on thinking outside the box with modifying your car. Every show I would get 0 points since my car had a wrap or at best half points. Why it is an exterior of the car? I also would not get many points for the interior even though I have everything modified. You know the winners of the show in the modified class would be someone with rims lip kit and motor work. Interior and paint would stock but they would win... How is that a modified car.

Also why is it a lot of shows that will not give you or let you see the score sheet. I think that score sheets should be available for everyone to see before the show. Also how can you use a the same score sheet for stock cars as for modified cars. Should there not be points for your modifications and the quality of the modification.

I wi post more later I'm in the car. I would like to know your all input on car shows.

Easy. The judges are idiots.

I have entered a car that is not a correct restoration in shows. I very purposefully changed some things from stock.. I actively pursued putting it in the 'custom' class. The judges- and this was at a huge regional show- the BSAAC show at Endicott Estate, Dedham MA- told me "no, restored"

OK fine. I got points here, points there- I shouldn't have gotten them. The judges that looked at it didn't know that the F they were looking at or what they were doing. I could show you in 2 minutes flat how to recognize that my car was built as a 350 model but it is now the 455 model, just by glancing at the VIN for god's sake.

The next time at that show, I put the roof down, as there is a rule that no convertible will be judged if the roof is down. I didn't want to take up judging time on a car that isn't winning anyway. I feel that the clubs' judges at that show- and I could be wrong- knew what they were doing and the clubs like the Oakland owner's club for example, had very expertly judged cars. But I think that they have their own judges at the show. But the judges provided by the show itself were just guys that liked cars.

I feel that show-car judges at many shows have in general become inexpert and they are simply looking for 'popular choice'.

[72MachOne99GT]

22 first places out of 26... and judges arent fair...

Mmkay...

[ChrisBlair]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

22 first places out of 26... and judges arent fair...

Mmkay...

That's not the point though. The point is that the judging isn't favoring the most modified cars in the modified cars category. That's like saying that your '72 Mustang has a correct restoration and has won 1st place 22 out of 26 times. The other four have gone to '72 Mustangs that are incorrectly restored

Would you feel that something was wrong with the judging in those four shows? Would you feel qualified to comment on the fact?