BTR Stage 2 vs. BTR Stage 3 cams GO!!

[pyroguy]

Ok, after combing through dozens of pages in the 'Official L99 Dyno Thread' I'm just not finding what I'm after. This is the first car I've ever really modded and when it comes to cams I'm a little lacking in knowledge so bear with me. I'm only looking at BTR NA cams right now so GPI, Texas Speed, or whomever recommendations I appreciate, but they're not what I'm after at this point.

- Why do you personally run a Stage 2 or a Stage 3 BTR cam?

- Can either of these or both be run using a stock converter? I realize you would benefit more with an aftermarket one, but at this point in time I am limited on what I can do so a stock one is what I have to work with.

- What kind of power are you putting down through a L99 car with these cams?

- If you're running a Stage 2, do you wish you did a Stage 3?

- How is driveability/street manners with either of these cams?

- Do either play well with boost? I have future goals of adding a LSA supercharger.

Thanks in advance for the help guys. I'm just nervous about pulling the trigger and not being happy with my results so I'm leaning on your opinions for help.

[zz430camaro]

I have a TSP that is almost identcal to the BTR stage 2, mine is 225/236 113. Its a LS3 car so I cant give insight into that but my cam is fantastic. If you daily drive the L99 I would go with the stage 2. These cams can be run with a supercarger but BTR has specific cams for that so if you are going to put one on wait and get the right cam. The NA cams would work better with a ProCharger.

[L99problems]

I can't give you personal experience with BTR cams because I run a GPI in my L99.

With that being said, if you insist between stage 2 and 3 BTR cams you'd probably want the stage 2 with the stock converter. Stage 3 is a lot of cam for the stock converter and you would likely run into some drivability issues such as bucking, stalling, pushing through the brakes etc. Most will tell you to get a stall and go big the first time.

I also didn't want to do a converter so I went with the GPI SS1 and it drives awesome with the stock stall and works with the LSA blower. I think you could get away with the stage 2 BTR on the stock stall, but again you still may have minor drivability issues and some push on the brakes at stoplights.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by pyroguy

Ok, after combing through dozens of pages in the 'Official L99 Dyno Thread' I'm just not finding what I'm after. This is the first car I've ever really modded and when it comes to cams I'm a little lacking in knowledge so bear with me. I'm only looking at BTR NA cams right now so GPI, Texas Speed, or whomever recommendations I appreciate, but they're not what I'm after at this point.

- Why do you personally run a Stage 2 or a Stage 3 BTR cam?

- Can either of these or both be run using a stock converter? I realize you would benefit more with an aftermarket one, but at this point in time I am limited on what I can do so a stock one is what I have to work with.

- What kind of power are you putting down through a L99 car with these cams?

- If you're running a Stage 2, do you wish you did a Stage 3?

- How is driveability/street manners with either of these cams?

- Do either play well with boost? I have future goals of adding a LSA supercharger.

Thanks in advance for the help guys. I'm just nervous about pulling the trigger and not being happy with my results so I'm leaning on your opinions for help.

If you're not gonna change the stall and gears, I'd stay with the stage 2.

You really should be talking with BTR and getting their input.

[christianchevell]

Used to have a TSP 235/239 112 LSA .639/.623 felt a lot like my now .613/ .578 114+4 LSA 220 ish to 230 ish called a stage three both by both companies both drive about the same with a clutch and the idle....which with a manual is 950....and idle stall take off to avoid bucking...cam surge is around 1300-1500 area to not lug it, you would want a cam for FI if your going to go there and then you limit your boost with stocky Hypereutectic pistons and rings.... Used to be people would talk to KIP at cammotion as he was the one who came out with the 8620 core and made up the grind lots of shops used like Tick etc...… Frankly do a converter or MEH...….And frankly if your not a old motorhead....find the most competent shop in your area and go with their advice as you do not want to have failure as a option IMO...…… and down there in Misery your pretty close to a lot of good shops places like Monster Clutch, etc etc etc etc... down Bayou way …...Opinions are like A--holes everyone has one, especially online..... Remember this though VVT good AFM bad...grunt.

[RLNTLSS]

I hve a Btr stage 3 cam..on L99/ls3 conversion,with a circle d 3200stall,.. also have long tubes, ported throttle and colder plugs.. dyno numbers were just shy of 490hp.. recently installed a pcm trans cooler and trans pan from b&r.. Moshimoto oil cooler soon. the stage 4 seemed to aggressive for a daily and for the price a stage 2 seems to much waste on effort..work wise.. i have seen many vids on youtube..btr set ups on ls3 with stage 3.. and this seemed perfect for what i wanted..my installer tried to move me over to texas speed since ther down the road..i wanted something different.. proud of my choice

[pyroguy]

Thank you everyone for the opinions. I find it very interesting how most shops I've talked to recommend a BTR cam over a TSP yet only one person who has commented here has a BTR and many have or had TSP. I know GPI makes good cams, but nobody has suggested them to me from the shops I've talked to and when I reached out to GPI repeatedly here I never heard back.

Ramlion, with your cam did you have the stall installed at the same time as your cam? If so would you mind PMing me to let me know a ballpark estimate of what the total cost could be if you don't mind sharing? If you don't mind sharing here that's fine too. I appreciate the dyno numbers too. I have a similar setup to what you have currently minus the stall and cam. Did you get any head work done when you had the cam installed?

As for the input from BTR, I spoke with one or their salesmen on the phone the other day, maybe I should try tech, and they suggested a stage 2 with a stock converter. However, my original tuner recommended a stage 3 even with keeping the stock converter. He actually just installed one in a Caprice and then drove it from PA to FL without problems.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by pyroguy

Thank you everyone for the opinions. I find it very interesting how most shops I've talked to recommend a BTR cam over a TSP yet only one person who has commented here has a BTR and many have or had TSP. I know GPI makes good cams, but nobody has suggested them to me from the shops I've talked to and when I reached out to GPI repeatedly here I never heard back.

Ramlion, with your cam did you have the stall installed at the same time as your cam? If so would you mind PMing me to let me know a ballpark estimate of what the total cost could be if you don't mind sharing? If you don't mind sharing here that's fine too. I appreciate the dyno numbers too. I have a similar setup to what you have currently minus the stall and cam. Did you get any head work done when you had the cam installed?

As for the input from BTR, I spoke with one or their salesmen on the phone the other day, maybe I should try tech, and they suggested a stage 2 with a stock converter. However, my original tuner recommended a stage 3 even with keeping the stock converter. He actually just installed one in a Caprice and then drove it from PA to FL without problems.

I'm shocked to hear you've had so much trouble reaching GPI - I have had fantastic and prompt customer service from them every time I've reached out. How are you trying to reach them? They really do have a very good product with a very proven track record. If I can help you reach them if you're continuing to have trouble reaching them don't hesitate to reach out via a private message.

[pyroguy]

Originally Posted by acammer

I'm shocked to hear you've had so much trouble reaching GPI - I have had fantastic and prompt customer service from them every time I've reached out. How are you trying to reach them? They really do have a very good product with a very proven track record. If I can help you reach them if you're continuing to have trouble reaching them don't hesitate to reach out via a private message.

I appreciate the help. I've tried over the last couple of years to PM them here and am yet to have any response back. I'm not saying that to bad mouth them, just stating a fact from my story.

From recommendations from tuners I've decided to go with BTR even though I had thought I might go with TSP until I really started getting additional tuner advice, but I just don't know if I should settle for the stage 2 because I can utilize the stock converter or if I could get away with a stage 3 and run the stock converter for a while longer without problems.

[RLNTLSS]

I had the cam and stall at same time... Anything over a 2stage was gonna cook my fact stall..tuner installer recommend we just do it all at 1 time..done over the course of a weekend.. everything done with tune fluids and ls3 conversion was 3k parts 8hundred for work done ..here in tx

[christianchevell]

Dude if I was in your place I would go to GPI....and read a couple threads here in the engines section, sure there are some good ones out there installing , places like Lethal, and many others close to you yet..... I don't know who these supposed tuners are you get advice from because time is money to real Tuner, and frankly the cams blanks be they what ever often in the past were all Comp Cams, and then better aircraft came along with 8620 and that's nice but you see people were stupid and did bad installs themselves over tightening the lash trashing cams and springs and lifters and of course Never doing a break in Because Jethro know it all says a roller does not need a break in.

Because its easy to be lazy, Me I research, and I have tons of experience for decades doing all my own builds of old Chevys.

SO consider this; the best manufacturers of parts recommend my oil which is specifically made for LS engines, TSP includes it in the price of one of their blocks, GPI has it on their web site as do many other great shops with competent people because the makers of their aftermarket parts recommend it and still I had to fight for years on here to just Represent I use Driven Racing oil products.

Remember those Gas Monkey guys; they once trashed a new rebuild motor on their show Fast and loud with a Hertz Mustang in a two show build.... Ate the crap out of the flat tappet cam with just using a Zddp additive to over the counter oil to break it in; yup could not even finish the break in before replacing everything.....That's what happens to a flat tappet cam; its why they don't say it but show they went out and bought Driven racing break in oil for the next engine..... I know enough to say you may be fine all the time just using some good 50/50 blend of oil which is dexos standard such as stock oil..... But if your going to thrash on it your stupid to think regular maintenance is all it will need, springs need changed with time, racing oil changes are more often, tires, brakes, diff fluid etc all take more a beating if you thrash and get on it. There used to be a shop on here down your way that went belly up, they sold a grind called the "Night Fury" ; was a very popular cam on here because it had a name...woopee…..my cam beat the night Fury its speced out higher and gave better dyno results being the 235/239 TSP cam and many would just go for a name; many would not...…. and used some common sense and research. Because it all matters. And no room for all the mods I have done, just have them on there to show some advice for others.


Sure Brian Tooley racing is good; deal is most shops like that get their Cams form someone else dude, and not that many makers so your going to have to research things yourself more than just taking others words. There are a million old threads on here of old builds form when this was a more popular site check out their numbers and what the owners say, because its you that have to make the decision, we cant do it for you and you seem like you don't care about our advice anyway.


And if you want to do it right Stall it, not like its Rocket science..... Or just go mediocre and live with some regret someday if you leave a butt load of power on the table or go why did I not do a FI cam now I have to re cam, or go why did I not get this or that....like ls9 head gaskets...… Because its all $$$$$$$ some have stupid money, some can live with a big mistake, for some there is no room for failure and failure is not a option. Reason GPI may not get back to you; they are too damn busy, my tuner has waiting list months long to get it in his shop, bozos driving in with their 100k cars on and off during the day chatting about this or that while he's trying to work on others cars and people calling all the time. Some times you just have to say hey later.....

So here's the guy who I take advice from, he has two electrical engineering degrees, puts things in SEMA, makes others in the area Jealous and he's just one guy...with a Mustang Dyno, all GM hardware and software, Hp tuning etc. and lots of experience and a library of tunes and knowledge to make others look stupid in like 0-60 in 1 second...LOL so take everything with a grain of salt because opinions are like... AND usually people that are too busy are the best, I know I wait in line and STFU....
https://www.facebook.com/Wongs-Perfo...-115667950915/

And if I buy parts I ask usually first if its complementary or a waste... because a build has a point, and one set of this is not good for that, one piston ring good for nitrous not for boost but good for N/A high compression, one cam too high and causes fly cutting pistons; or this or that or cheap or etc... good luck, and yes modding engines you of course will like the results, ( but leaving power on the table is hard for waiting for the future); and everything costs $$$ so sometimes things in stages are smarter like say a rough idle blower cam tuned down until blown etc... or a cam to complement say the nice 1500$ intake LOD speedworks makes etc.... BTW p.m. on here..MEH…. something I would have to be on here to use and my wife says NO.. contact vendors on the phone or email really...……..I don't stare at my phone either while walking in traffic...LOL I am the traffic.

[pyroguy]

Originally Posted by Ramlion

I had the cam and stall at same time... Anything over a 2stage was gonna cook my fact stall..tuner installer recommend we just do it all at 1 time..done over the course of a weekend.. everything done with tune fluids and ls3 conversion was 3k parts 8hundred for work done ..here in tx

Thanks for the info. That’s really interesting about the total cost of about $4k. Did you help or was your shop just an extra reasonably priced shop?

Originally Posted by christianchevell

Dude if I was in your place I would go to GPI....and read a couple threads here in the engines section, sure there are some good ones out there installing , places like Lethal, and many others close to you yet.....

I didn’t want to fill up a forum with the entire quote, but my primary tuner was Jeremy Formato of Fasterproms. If you don’t know him he’s the guy who first put a C7 Z06 in the 9’s with only bolt ons (manual car to boot), had the fastest ATS-V until he sold it, tuner for the #2 and #7 fastest CTS-V’s, tunes “Leroy”, and more. He knows his way around a LS engine to say the least. Even if GPI is potentially so busy they can’t get back to me quickly, not getting back at all is just bad for business.

Thank you for your opinions, but I’m looking for people who have or have used the 2 cams I’m looking at using for their experiences.

[RLNTLSS]

The post above about supposed tuners..is right..the guy that did my actual engine work..removal and install service had all the tools ,lifts...actual shop.. he spoke about hp like he knew what he could tune.. after the install for a few days something wasnt right ..i got in contact with pat guerra.. Pat g.. we emailed a few days on and off..and set up a dyno and tune session..a month away from my recieve date of cammed car.. my cars is an auto and i felt my tune was off..the car had a really ruff idle and horrible pulse in the exhuast... Pat smoothed all that out and made the car calmer inside and make it sound beefy as hell.. the installer did a great job engine wise and partial tune wise.. but without a proper tuner, all of this was pointless.. and i learned the hard way. Its all great now..i love this car way more then before..20k miles with cam amd almost paid for..

[christianchevell]

Stuck on those two cams huh …..LOL oh well.