Introduction and a major car dilemma! - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

LS3Jeff · 04-26-2016, 01:13 PM

Hello all!

My name is Jeff. I have been using this forum a lot as of late and have found some fantastic information! I recently decided to join team 5th gen and purchased a 2011 1SS Camaro M6 with 21,000 miles on it! Got the car from a Chevorlet dealership in Northern California. I absolutely love the car. From the power, to the looks, it is absolutely the best car I have ever owned. Sadly just 3-4 days into my honeymoon period of owning my car my troubles began...

One day, leaving work, I noticed when I started the car that a small puff of bluish white smoke passed by my driver window (wind must have caught it). Now I did not purchase an additional warranty on the car, but fortunately I still had a small bit of power train warranty left. The issues are simply a small puff of blue smoke at cold start up, sometimes bigger or smaller. Will happen everytime the car sits for about 2-3 hours. Drives fine. Upon inspecting the throttle body, I noticed when I looked into the throttle body, you could see fresh oil coating the inside of the intake manifold.

After ruling out that it was not condensation (based on repeated similar startups even in warm weather) I decided to take the car to a local and reputable Chevy dealership. They called back pretty quick telling me that they would not work on the car (at least under warranty) based on the fact that it had been "modified". They noted that the car did in fact blow blue smoke upon start up, but they said that it had different colored head gaskets, all bolt paint had been removed and vacuum lines looked as if they had been hastily reconnected indicating the car might have been slapped back together by some guy and traded in. They stated the intake manifold inside was coated in oil and the park plugs were also fouled. They advised me that the car could have something as small as bad valve stem seals or as bad as a blown piston ring which is causing the blow-by. They advised me to ask for my money back as they assumed the car had been "beat on".

Angered, considering this was one week into owning the car, and I felt a bit like a had been played by this dealership (how could they have not noticed smoke coming from the tailpipes when they were "safety testing" the car and better yet...how did they smog it) and in frustration back the the original dealer. After some yelling and showing them some glaring problems (as well as the written statement from my local dealership) my dealership profusely apologized and claimed that they had no idea the car had any issues! The used car sales rep initially told me the card as supercharged, then the service manager claimed that the car was not supercharged but was cammed with long tubes and a tune. I argued they had sold me a car with a voided factory warranty and had not disclosed that information to me and demanded my money back to which they said that they would repair the car for free and give me an extended 1 year on my power train warranty in case they missed the fix.

What concerns me is the blow-by. They basically told me that the problem was the valve stem seals and the car passed a compression/leak down test with "flying colors". However this doesn't at all account for why the car would have oil in the intake manifold. I did some reading on here that many Camaro's do have blow by issues an catch cans are a must...but I am nervous the car might have a shot piston ring and they are making it with a valve stem seal fix.

Does anyone know if a dealership would out and out lie about compression/leakdown numbers?

If you guys were me would you keep this car and their deal, or get your money back and search for another?

I love the car and the low miles, and at least I have gotten to the bottom of this car where as another used SS could be a whole new can of worms...plus a low mileage one is tough to find in my area...but at the same time, I am nervous this dealership is playing me.

Sorry for the long write up and if it is at all confusing...I myself have been in tons of confusion over this the past 2 week since I bought the car!

Thanks again for any input and advice, and one way or another...I'm definitely sticking team 5th gen!

BlakeD · 04-26-2016, 01:21 PM

First of all, welcome to the group! Secondly, I personally would fight and try to get your money back, if they had a confusion on if it was supercharged or not, that just plays into their accountability.

And if the dealership near you said it looked thrown back together, I wouldn't risk it. It might be a fight to give it back to them. Though extending the warranty for another year could give you peace of mind that it's fixed.

Skillet · 04-26-2016, 01:26 PM

Send a PM to Chevrolet Customer Svc they may be able to help you out.

carfansince73 · 04-26-2016, 01:29 PM

Wow, that sux. Assuming it had a cam and/or a supercharger, they would have had to tune the car, which would show up when the dealership hooked it up to their computer. I can't imagine them not knowing, especially in light of the other visual changes to the engine. I can imagine them not telling you unfortunately, but that may have been an ignorant sales person who was unaware. They should have flagged it upon inspection and told any prospective buyer of what had been done and how it affects the warranty.

If they won't fix it and warranty the repairs and the car for at least 12mos/12K miles, I'd ask for my money back. What you are seeing may be why the person traded it, the possibility of a big dollar repair not covered by warranty. That whole "you gotta pay to play" saying shouldn't apply to you.

Just my 2 cents.. Hope it works out for you. They are great cars as you already know.

Welker2 · 04-26-2016, 01:35 PM

First, welcome & sorry your experience with the car has gotten off to a bad start. If it were me, given the problem & unknown mods (what was done, undone and by whom), I'd push to get my money back and look for another.

As far as the numbers go, the dealership offered a 1 year warranty to fix anything incase they missed something, so I wouldn't think they were lying about them ... but who knows, they could try to string you along.

LS3Jeff · 04-26-2016, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carfansince73

Wow, that sux. Assuming it had a cam and/or a supercharger, they would have had to tune the car, which would show up when the dealership hooked it up to their computer. I can't imagine them not knowing, especially in light of the other visual changes to the engine. I can imagine them not telling you unfortunately, but that may have been an ignorant sales person who was unaware. They should have flagged it upon inspection and told any prospective buyer of what had been done and how it affects the warranty.

If they won't fix it and warranty the repairs and the car for at least 12mos/12K miles, I'd ask for my money back. What you are seeing may be why the person traded it, the possibility of a big dollar repair not covered by warranty. That whole "you gotta pay to play" saying shouldn't apply to you.

Just my 2 cents.. Hope it works out for you. They are great cars as you already know.

This dealership (who I don't want to really publically bash yet considering they COULD really have simply missed this problem and are trying to rectify it) has had a colored past (something I didn't know until speaking to other dealerships). Maybe they will do right by me in order to fix their reputation and not receive another severely bad review or maybe I am another victim...

Its just a scary situation. My buying power is about 24000 which is what this car cost me...For that price, I will have to look high and low to find another low mileage 5th gen and at that, I am scared I could find myself in the same predicament or event a worse one... The reason I am leaning towards keeping the car is that they did claim they checked the motor top to bottom and it has been fully repaired. I feel like if it had a bad piston ring, a year is plenty of time for that to pop up and me to demand a rebuild or motor considering they're claiming valve stem seals are fixing the problem...Tough to let it go its a beautiful car! Will post pics soon.

LS3Jeff · 04-26-2016, 02:28 PM

I came at them pretty hard and they caved. They offered me my money back now, or they said they will fix the car and if I still don't like what they repair I can have my money back then (they said they have to sell it so they're fixing it regardless) which is kind of BS since they could auction it. They said they would push my powertrain warranty out an extra year through their dealership to ensure that if it was something like the piston ring and not the valve stem seals that they would catch it and rectify the problem.

LS3Jeff · 04-26-2016, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skillet

Send a PM to Chevrolet Customer Svc they may be able to help you out.

The dealership is acting very accommodating saying theyre gonna fix everything and offer me a 1 year powertrain warranty extension, so I don't want to throw these guys under the bus quite yet. However if I decide to say "sorry, I decided to just go ahead and get my money back" and they try to decline then perhaps I will have to go this route.

Thor142 · 04-26-2016, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LS3Jeff

I came at them pretty hard and they caved. They offered me my money back now, or they said they will fix the car and if I still don't like what they repair I can have my money back then (they said they have to sell it so they're fixing it regardless) which is kind of BS since they could auction it. They said they would push my powertrain warranty out an extra year through their dealership to ensure that if it was something like the piston ring and not the valve stem seals that they would catch it and rectify the problem.

That's fair.

LS3Jeff · 04-26-2016, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlakeD

First of all, welcome to the group! Secondly, I personally would fight and try to get your money back, if they had a confusion on if it was supercharged or not, that just plays into their accountability.

And if the dealership near you said it looked thrown back together, I wouldn't risk it. It might be a fight to give it back to them. Though extending the warranty for another year could give you peace of mind that it's fixed.

The used car manager was the one who said supercharged. A day later the service manager apologized on his behalf claiming the used car manager had no experience with this car and he instead knew it very well and said it had long tubes, a tune, a cam and intake. Confirmed by stronger internals (they just called to ask if I wanted them to take out the aftermarket springs and push rods).

These guys are so greased up and polite its hard to read them...

LS3Jeff · 04-26-2016, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thor142

That's fair.

Its just tough to know if this isn't a calculated move on their end...if the car did have bad rings, maybe they think it would last a year and they can kind of slip right through this without a major repair...however they would have had to falsify compression and leak down numbers which I can't imagine they would be willing to do. I could take it to a 3rd party shop they day I get it back and have them run down their numbers to check them over.

LS3Jeff · 04-26-2016, 02:38 PM

By the way I very much appreciate all the input guys! I am the only 5th gen owner I know and am still learning about these cars! So it is great to here from knowledgeable people. This community seems very cool and supportive from what I have seen in digging around here for the past few weeks.

qcman · 04-26-2016, 02:49 PM

If it were me and they offered a refund I would take it and run like a bat out of hell.... but thats me. The problem I would have is knowing the sketchy history of the car and its possible problems I would be driving around waiting for it to go boom instead of actually enjoying it.

But if you are comfortable and think its worth the risk or chance I truly hope it works out for you. It could be a very good car once properly fixed hard to say...

LS3Jeff · 04-26-2016, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qcman

If it were me and they offered a refund I would take it and run like a bat out of hell.... but thats me. The problem I would have is knowing the sketchy history of the car and its possible problems I would be driving around waiting for it to go boom instead of actually enjoying it.

But if you are comfortable and think its worth the risk or chance I truly hope it works out for you. It could be a very good car once properly fixed hard to say...

I agree with you the constant anxiety could ruin the car for me...

04-26-2016, 01:13 PM	#1
LS3Jeff Drives: 2011 Camaro 1SS M6 Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: California Posts: 14	Introduction and a major car dilemma! Hello all! My name is Jeff. I have been using this forum a lot as of late and have found some fantastic information! I recently decided to join team 5th gen and purchased a 2011 1SS Camaro M6 with 21,000 miles on it! Got the car from a Chevorlet dealership in Northern California. I absolutely love the car. From the power, to the looks, it is absolutely the best car I have ever owned. Sadly just 3-4 days into my honeymoon period of owning my car my troubles began... One day, leaving work, I noticed when I started the car that a small puff of bluish white smoke passed by my driver window (wind must have caught it). Now I did not purchase an additional warranty on the car, but fortunately I still had a small bit of power train warranty left. The issues are simply a small puff of blue smoke at cold start up, sometimes bigger or smaller. Will happen everytime the car sits for about 2-3 hours. Drives fine. Upon inspecting the throttle body, I noticed when I looked into the throttle body, you could see fresh oil coating the inside of the intake manifold. After ruling out that it was not condensation (based on repeated similar startups even in warm weather) I decided to take the car to a local and reputable Chevy dealership. They called back pretty quick telling me that they would not work on the car (at least under warranty) based on the fact that it had been "modified". They noted that the car did in fact blow blue smoke upon start up, but they said that it had different colored head gaskets, all bolt paint had been removed and vacuum lines looked as if they had been hastily reconnected indicating the car might have been slapped back together by some guy and traded in. They stated the intake manifold inside was coated in oil and the park plugs were also fouled. They advised me that the car could have something as small as bad valve stem seals or as bad as a blown piston ring which is causing the blow-by. They advised me to ask for my money back as they assumed the car had been "beat on". Angered, considering this was one week into owning the car, and I felt a bit like a had been played by this dealership (how could they have not noticed smoke coming from the tailpipes when they were "safety testing" the car and better yet...how did they smog it) and in frustration back the the original dealer. After some yelling and showing them some glaring problems (as well as the written statement from my local dealership) my dealership profusely apologized and claimed that they had no idea the car had any issues! The used car sales rep initially told me the card as supercharged, then the service manager claimed that the car was not supercharged but was cammed with long tubes and a tune. I argued they had sold me a car with a voided factory warranty and had not disclosed that information to me and demanded my money back to which they said that they would repair the car for free and give me an extended 1 year on my power train warranty in case they missed the fix. What concerns me is the blow-by. They basically told me that the problem was the valve stem seals and the car passed a compression/leak down test with "flying colors". However this doesn't at all account for why the car would have oil in the intake manifold. I did some reading on here that many Camaro's do have blow by issues an catch cans are a must...but I am nervous the car might have a shot piston ring and they are making it with a valve stem seal fix. Does anyone know if a dealership would out and out lie about compression/leakdown numbers? If you guys were me would you keep this car and their deal, or get your money back and search for another? I love the car and the low miles, and at least I have gotten to the bottom of this car where as another used SS could be a whole new can of worms...plus a low mileage one is tough to find in my area...but at the same time, I am nervous this dealership is playing me. Sorry for the long write up and if it is at all confusing...I myself have been in tons of confusion over this the past 2 week since I bought the car! Thanks again for any input and advice, and one way or another...I'm definitely sticking team 5th gen!

04-26-2016, 01:21 PM	#2
BlakeD Drives: 2015 Camaro SS 1LE Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Chattanooga, TN Posts: 286	First of all, welcome to the group! Secondly, I personally would fight and try to get your money back, if they had a confusion on if it was supercharged or not, that just plays into their accountability. And if the dealership near you said it looked thrown back together, I wouldn't risk it. It might be a fight to give it back to them. Though extending the warranty for another year could give you peace of mind that it's fixed. __________________ 2013 2SS RS CAI Intake Air Scope BMR Strut Bar Tune

04-26-2016, 01:29 PM	#4
carfansince73 Drives: Carefully Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 1,213 View My Garage	Wow, that sux. Assuming it had a cam and/or a supercharger, they would have had to tune the car, which would show up when the dealership hooked it up to their computer. I can't imagine them not knowing, especially in light of the other visual changes to the engine. I can imagine them not telling you unfortunately, but that may have been an ignorant sales person who was unaware. They should have flagged it upon inspection and told any prospective buyer of what had been done and how it affects the warranty. If they won't fix it and warranty the repairs and the car for at least 12mos/12K miles, I'd ask for my money back. What you are seeing may be why the person traded it, the possibility of a big dollar repair not covered by warranty. That whole "you gotta pay to play" saying shouldn't apply to you. Just my 2 cents.. Hope it works out for you. They are great cars as you already know. __________________ 2010 1SS RS, LS3, SIM/Black, painted rally stripes, AAC sidemarkers, Sunroof, B.A. sound sys; 20x9.5 & 20x11 SV1-C5's; MGW short shifter; Hotchkis Track Pack; Corsa catback; Kooks 1 7/8"; ADM Street; Magnacharger TVS2300 - 548rwhp/512rwtq 1100- 2/18/09; 3800- 6/15/09 VIN#18308; Delivered 6/29/09!!!!! 2014 CTS-V Sedan, Black/Black, Auto, Recaros, Ultra-view, Red Brembos. Stock

04-26-2016, 01:35 PM	#5
Welker2 Ret AF, cancer survivor Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS/RS & 2006 Corvette Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Mesquite, NV Posts: 2,741 View My Garage	First, welcome & sorry your experience with the car has gotten off to a bad start. If it were me, given the problem & unknown mods (what was done, undone and by whom), I'd push to get my money back and look for another. As far as the numbers go, the dealership offered a 1 year warranty to fix anything incase they missed something, so I wouldn't think they were lying about them ... but who knows, they could try to string you along. __________________

04-26-2016, 01:26 PM	#3
Skillet Account Suspended Drives: car Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: somewhere Posts: 291	Send a PM to Chevrolet Customer Svc they may be able to help you out.

04-26-2016, 02:28 PM	#7
LS3Jeff Drives: 2011 Camaro 1SS M6 Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: California Posts: 14	I came at them pretty hard and they caved. They offered me my money back now, or they said they will fix the car and if I still don't like what they repair I can have my money back then (they said they have to sell it so they're fixing it regardless) which is kind of BS since they could auction it. They said they would push my powertrain warranty out an extra year through their dealership to ensure that if it was something like the piston ring and not the valve stem seals that they would catch it and rectify the problem.

04-26-2016, 02:38 PM	#12
LS3Jeff Drives: 2011 Camaro 1SS M6 Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: California Posts: 14	By the way I very much appreciate all the input guys! I am the only 5th gen owner I know and am still learning about these cars! So it is great to here from knowledgeable people. This community seems very cool and supportive from what I have seen in digging around here for the past few weeks.

04-26-2016, 02:49 PM	#13
qcman Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS RDP Tuned L99 Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada eh? Posts: 1,889	If it were me and they offered a refund I would take it and run like a bat out of hell.... but thats me. The problem I would have is knowing the sketchy history of the car and its possible problems I would be driving around waiting for it to go boom instead of actually enjoying it. But if you are comfortable and think its worth the risk or chance I truly hope it works out for you. It could be a very good car once properly fixed hard to say...