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Old 06-01-2010, 04:27 PM   #57
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Wiki bad for sourcing. Remember you college kids, if you cite Wiki, be prepared for points knocked off! When anyone can edit it, anyone can edit it! Including me, and I have no idea what octane means!
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Old 06-01-2010, 05:35 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFJeeper View Post
Wiki bad for sourcing. Remember you college kids, if you cite Wiki, be prepared for points knocked off! When anyone can edit it, anyone can edit it! Including me, and I have no idea what octane means!
Like I said I checked several sources and I just quoted Wiki because they seemed to have it summed up the best.. I don't usually like to quote them myself because of the many errors i have found on other subjects, But I NEVER rely on their information totally, i always double and triple check them out.

http://www.state.mn.us/mn/externalDo...ctaneFacts.pdf

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthi.../aa070401a.htm

http://news.carjunky.com/gasoline-oc...k-abc502.shtml

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-e...question90.htm

Just a few of the other resources if you just want to search a little.

And this is from the federal trade commission.


Quote:
The Low-Down on High Octane Gasoline
Are you tempted to buy a high octane gasoline for your car because you want to improve its performance? If so, take note: the recommended gasoline for most cars is regular octane. In fact, in most cases, using a higher octane gasoline than your owner's manual recommends offers absolutely no benefit. It won't make your car perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner. Your best bet: listen to your owner's manual.

The only time you might need to switch to a higher octane level is if your car engine knocks when you use the recommended fuel. This happens to a small percentage of cars.

Unless your engine is knocking, buying higher octane gasoline is a waste of money, too. Premium gas costs 15 to 20 cents per gallon more than regular. That can add up to $100 or more a year in extra costs. Studies indicate that altogether, drivers may be spending hundreds of millions of dollars each year for higher octane gas than they need.

What are octane ratings?
Octane ratings measure a gasoline's ability to resist engine knock, a rattling or pinging sound that results from premature ignition of the compressed fuel-air mixture in one or more cylinders. Most gas stations offer three octane grades: regular (usually 87 octane), mid-grade (usually 89 octane) and premium (usually 92 or 93). The ratings must be posted on bright yellow stickers on each gasoline pump.

What's the right octane level for your car?
Check your owner's manual to determine the right octane level for your car. Regular octane is recommended for most cars. However, some cars with high compression engines, like sports cars and certain luxury cars, need mid-grade or premium gasoline to prevent knock.

How can you tell if you're using the right octane level? Listen to your car's engine. If it doesn't knock when you use the recommended octane, you're using the right grade of gasoline.

Will higher octane gasoline clean your engine better?
As a rule, high octane gasoline does not outperform regular octane in preventing engine deposits from forming, in removing them, or in cleaning your car's engine. In fact, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency requires that all octane grades of all brands of gasoline contain engine cleaning detergent additives to protect against the build-up of harmful levels of engine deposits during the expected life of your car.

Should you ever switch to a higher octane gasoline?
A few car engines may knock or ping - even if you use the recommended octane. If this happens, try switching to the next highest octane grade. In many cases, switching to the mid-grade or premium-grade gasoline will eliminate the knock. If the knocking or pinging continues after one or two fill-ups, you may need a tune-up or some other repair. After that work is done, go back to the lowest octane grade at which your engine runs without knocking.

Is knocking harmful?
Occasional light knocking or pinging won't harm your engine, and doesn't indicate a need for higher octane. But don't ignore severe knocking. A heavy or persistent knock can lead to engine damage.

Is all "premium" or "regular" gasoline the same?
The octane rating of gasoline marked "premium" or "regular" is not consistent across the country. One state may require a minimum octane rating of 92 for all premium gasoline, while another may allow 90 octane to be called premium. To make sure you know what you're buying, check the octane rating on the yellow sticker on the gas pump instead of relying on the name "premium" or "regular."

For More Information
If you're concerned about the accuracy of an octane label - or if you don't see a yellow octane sticker on a gasoline pump, write: Consumer Response Center, Federal Trade Commission, Washington, DC 20580.

The FTC works to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop and avoid them. To file a complaint or get free information on consumer issues, visit ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. Watch a new video, How to File a Complaint, at ftc.gov/video to learn more. The FTC enters consumer complaints into the Consumer Sentinel Network, a secure online database and investigative tool used by hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad.
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Old 06-01-2010, 06:22 PM   #59
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manual says 87 octane or higher. That's what I'm doin...just tend to go a bit higher, thats all.
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Old 06-02-2010, 05:44 AM   #60
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Which octane gas to use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlingnotes View Post
Anyone that says that you are wasting your money putting anything higher than 87 in the tank has never driven this car with premium in it. Sure you can put 87 in it, but it runs better with the higher octane fuel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scrming View Post

So while the car may run on 87 octane it doesn't appear to be living up to its full potential, especially if it is constantly pulling timing... I run premium and the knock sensors basically sits at zero...
I'd agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenMonster View Post
FROM What I read on a thread before was that midgrade was just a mix of both low and high grade so you dont really know what your getting just go w supreme
This is true. I deleiver gas. It's either mixed at the pumps or mixed when loading the truck. It's usually 1/3 super and 2/3 regular where I live.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010SLVRBULIT View Post
higher altitude, our options are 85,87,91. With less air, 87 works great. Don't think I'd drop down to 85, though. 91 would be pointless for a n/a engine up here, imo.
It is true that with higher altitudes you use lower octane pump gases, but they sell what you need where you live or where you are at when you fuel your car. So I'd go with the best if you can afford it and you want the extra performance.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
I hate to change sides on this issue, but having the knock sensors active at 87 and not at 89 indicates that there is an empirical benefit to using 89. This does not preclude that using higher octane in general is better for the engine, but there is enough evidence to suggest an upgrade to 89 might be worthwhile. Anything higher seems to have no additional benefit.
If the knock sensors are picking up knocks, then you can go up on the octane until they don't pick up any more knocks for sure. The engine isn't supposed to knock with the correct octane or atleast that's the way it used to be before knock sensors. You would just listen for the knocks and say oh I guess I better put better gas in the car.


The camaro V-6 engine has 11:1 compression. I'm sure it will run better and get better gas milage with 91-93 octane,.

My 99 mazda uses 87, but if I put in 93 I notice the difference in mileage and power, But if I divide the extra cost of the 93 into the mileage in might not be cheaper in the long run.

In most cases if you use higher octane pump gas your car will run better and your mileage will increase. In theory using too high of an octane will result in all the negatives that the others said but I've never seen it from pump gas, race gas at the might (probably) do those things the others mentioned.

There is a very clear difference between where you buy your gas and what brand you buy. Go buy some unbranded 91-93 gas,then go buy some Sunoco 91-93 gas, and you will feel the difference.

The computers pick up the knocks (gas that burns too fast) and turns back the timing. This all lowers your power. So I'd say run the gas that the computer turns back the timing the least if you want the most power from your car. If you can't afford it then just run 87 because it will probably cost you less. The camaro can run whatever you put in it from 87-93 because the computer will adjust to that gas.

Here is what the camaro manual says (below). It refers to both the v-6 and v-8, but all the principles apply to both engines in my opinion. The v-6 has 11:1 compression. There is no way you could run 11:1 compression in the old days before computers without high octance gas.

-----------------------CAMARO MANUAL-------------------------- -------------------------
Recommended Fuel
If the vehicle has the 3.6L V6 engine(VIN Code V), use regular unleaded gasoline with a posted octane rating of 87 or higher. If the octane rating is less than 87, you might notice an audible knocking noise when you drive, commonly referred to as spark knock. If this occurs, use a gasoline rated at 87 octane or higher as soon as possible. If you are using gasoline rated at 87 octane or higher and you hear heavy knocking, the engine needs service. If the vehicle has the 6.2L V8 engine (VIN Code W) or the 6.2L V8 engine (VIN Code J), use premium unleaded gasoline with a posted octane rating of 91 or higher. For best performance, use premium unleaded gasoline with a posted octane rating of 93. You can also use, regular unleaded gasoline rated at 87 octane or higher, but the vehicle’s acceleration could be slightly reduced, and you might notice a slight audible knocking noise, commonly referred to as a spark knock. If the octane is less than 87, you might notice a heavy knocking noise when you drive. If this occurs, use a gasoline rated at 87 octane or higher as soon as possible. Otherwise, you could damage the engine. If you are using gasoline rated at 87 octane or higher and you hear heavy knocking, the engine needs service.
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Old 06-02-2010, 08:27 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Abygale View Post
I have been using 87 since I got my car. I'm going to hook up the Dashhawk on the way home tonight and monitor that knock sensor ...
Got any results yet?
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:02 PM   #62
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I'm using an OBD2 that lets me read all the parameters
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.
My car is running better. I can tell a difference. My adv degree timing was almost at 32 now it is at 8
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:21 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJewelSS View Post
yep, just look at diesel. twice the BTUs of premium gas and less than half the octane rating.

This is a bit misleading.... Octane doesn't matter with diesel. the main component diesel uses to resist combustion is Cetane. Static compression ratios are completely different for these types of engines. gasoline engines are typically 8-10 (although we're seeing production engines hitting 12's sometimes now) and diesels are more into the 40's.

Octane and Cetane levels represent the fuels resistance to combustion under compression. The higher numbers will resist it longer so you can squish it more and get more "work" out of it.

The reason the v6 recommends 87 and the v8 recommends 91+ is most likely the Dynamic Compression ratio. Which has everything to do with your cam/valve/timing setup. I'm willing to bet the v6's dynamic ratio is much lower than the v8's. (I don't actually know the numbers)

Static ratio is a good rule of thumb to gauge where you should start with octane, but dynamic ratio is the more realistic number and will really determine what your engine is happy running with.

edit* I didn't finish reading the thread before I posted this... lots of good info here already that I repeated
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:26 PM   #64
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I don't have a Dashawk (yet) but I switched from 87 to 89 and the difference is noticeable. Smoother acceleration, especially when you mash it.

Haven't tried the 91. Haven't seen any evidence of additional benefit. Maybe I'll try it sometime.
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Old 06-02-2010, 01:41 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyderbuddy View Post
I'm using an OBD2 that lets me read all the parameters
THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.
My car is running better. I can tell a difference. My adv degree timing was almost at 32 now it is at 8
I'm confused! It appears that the timing is being "retarded" with the use of higher octane. If it was 32 with low octane and now 8 with higher octane, how can you have better performance. I presume you mean 32 and 8 BTDC.
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Old 06-02-2010, 01:57 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by USAFJeeper View Post
Wiki bad for sourcing. Remember you college kids, if you cite Wiki, be prepared for points knocked off! When anyone can edit it, anyone can edit it! Including me, and I have no idea what octane means!
Actually wiki is a great place to start. People cite their sources at the bottom. You use those sources to get information, not directly off wiki. You really shouldn't hate one something that is a great resource for sources.
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Old 06-02-2010, 02:24 PM   #67
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[QUOTE=wylde1;1936123]This is a bit misleading.... Octane doesn't matter with diesel. the main component diesel uses to resist combustion is Cetane.

I think the thread at that point in time refered to the energy per unit of volume. BTU's of lower octane versus higher octane gasoline.
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