Guessing this is the end..Rod Knock? - Page 3 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

xc_SS/RS · 07-19-2019, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lazerlemonta

These things handle higher RPM pretty damn good. Not sure why a few have spit rod bearings out. I personally have been turning LS motors 7400 since the mid 2000s. As its been stated a few times at high RPM you should not be just slamming the throttle shut, engine braking or living on the limiter. Who knows what actually causes these few to let go. I would be willing to bet there are more successfully turning 7500+ then failing.

I've heard too much timing is also bad for the rod bearings

zz430camaro · 07-19-2019, 01:26 PM

If you get one rod with slightly less preload and a bearing with less crush then bam, she spins. The parts are strong enough but everything needs to be tolerances right, when you get one with everything on the extreme ends it happens.

Russell James · 07-20-2019, 09:12 AM

There are a lot of tricks to making rod bearings live.

The higher you go up in performance and RPM, the less you want to use an OE strategy of tight aluminum bearings, OE rod bolts... Spin it way higher than the OE rev limit and that combo of not the strongest bolts, no cushioning layer of lead and copper in the bearing, clearance less than .001" (read that as less oil film thickness for cushioning)...

I'd go with the COPO strategy... they've tested it to death... it works:

Tri Metal racing bearings, lead/copper... COPO engines use Clevite H series.

The best rod bolts ARP sells for the rods you choose. Buy a good ARP stretch gauge... install them to the exact stretch ARP advises. Not just tq'd. Use their lube, their stretch gauge. Mic measure clearances, not just plastigauge.

Clearance strategy: You have an aluminum block and steel rods. The block will grow more than the rods. Give the rods a hair more bearing clearance than the mains. IE.... .0019"ish on the mains, .0022" - .0027"ish on the rods. High volume/high pressure blueprinted pump. Priority mains would be best, but if OE block, it is what it is.

Racing oil with zinc/phos. Not too thick or thin. Avoid zero weight, avoid 20w50. Find the weight that gives you the right pressure for your build at WOT. Video the pressure gauge on passes. If it's pegging at WOT, no good - go thinner, you want to avoid filter bypass. But don't go all the way down to a zero weight.

Really warm the engine up good before any WOT.

A rod bearing spins because of lack of cushioning, clearance, oil, rod bolt fatiguing, heavy pistons/OE rod bolts zing'd way above the rev limit those parts were designed for, detonation hammers rod bearings (many racing teams, esp top fuel measure the width of their rod bearings every run, a rod bearing that gets smashed wider on that pass had detonation in that cylinder) ...

Good luck with the new build!

christianchevell · 07-20-2019, 09:14 AM

Not knowing your miles on the motor, what oil your using, what the condition is of your bores being they can only be overhoned .020 you will want to have it torn down and checked to make sure you also don't need a new block also. Your having GPI heads means nothing compared to the bottom end, and having not torn down you have to find what it is......

Dylan1214 · 07-20-2019, 06:56 PM

Hey guys sorry I've been afk for awhile.. The car just flipped to 10k, for oil ive been running BR30 followed up with LS30..As of now the plan is to buy a new 376 rotating assembly through GPI, new diamond pistons, callie rods, callie crank and all new bearings..Gonna pull my short block and have my local shop clean out and assemble for me..Should be back up and running relatively quick..Thanks for all the support and helpful comments. Definitely sucks but comes with the territory. Build,race,break repeat ill post some caranage photos when I get her out

John_C · 07-20-2019, 07:48 PM

In to see the new build!

Dylan1214 · 07-21-2019, 03:28 AM

Done for the night, lot of progress made..one of these 4 little bastards is the culprit...My money's on number 7, my brother says three...

Clarkstar · 07-21-2019, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dylan1214

Done for the night, lot of progress made..one of these 4 little bastards is the culprit...My money's on number 7, my brother says three...

Mine was the number 1....

zz430camaro · 07-21-2019, 07:38 AM

Why does it look like there is a dark stain under the ports? Almost like the ports are not matching up by like an inch?

christianchevell · 07-21-2019, 09:45 AM

Hopefully your block is Ok and you then can get the proper setup to stroke it and live happier with the increased torque and power unleashed. Stuff happens....

pnwdan · 07-21-2019, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zz430camaro

Why does it look like there is a dark stain under the ports? Almost like the ports are not matching up by like an inch?

Agreed. What is going on there?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

sixty9fordkiller · 07-21-2019, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zz430camaro

Why does it look like there is a dark stain under the ports? Almost like the ports are not matching up by like an inch?

what he said

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Dylan1214 · 07-21-2019, 03:33 PM

I wondered this aswell, has something to do with the MSD intake manifold, for what ever reason it has these void squares under the ports..photos below.. The actual ports do appear to line up perfectly.

Russell James · 07-23-2019, 01:33 PM

Strange seal design and recipe for leak. The OE manifold just uses a reusable rectangular seal only around the port.

In those ports you can see over-torque has distorted the seal going around the intake bolts on the MSD. I'd replace those seals and use a known calibrated tq wrench.

07-19-2019, 01:26 PM	#30
zz430camaro Drives: 2015 1LE Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 1,485	If you get one rod with slightly less preload and a bearing with less crush then bam, she spins. The parts are strong enough but everything needs to be tolerances right, when you get one with everything on the extreme ends it happens. __________________ 2015 1LE, TSP 225/236 113+3, VMAX Throttle Body, CAI with race scoop, GPI Ported Intake, Land Speed Stage 2 Heads, 1-7/8 headers, NPP exhaust, 25% Fluidampr, LT1-S Monster Clutch, 485 RWHP & 444 TQ

07-20-2019, 09:14 AM	#32
christianchevell old school chevy rodder Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Manual,DM exhaust,CRT Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,588 View My Garage	Not knowing your miles on the motor, what oil your using, what the condition is of your bores being they can only be overhoned .020 you will want to have it torn down and checked to make sure you also don't need a new block also. Your having GPI heads means nothing compared to the bottom end, and having not torn down you have to find what it is...... __________________ 2021 Wild Cherry ZL1 A10, Sunroof, Data, Carbon, Nav, RotoFab Dry CAI, Elite x2, Borla ATK, Driveshaft shop

07-20-2019, 06:56 PM	#33
Dylan1214 Drives: 2014 Camaro SS L99 Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: GrandRapids,Michigan Posts: 225 View My Garage	Hey guys sorry I've been afk for awhile.. The car just flipped to 10k, for oil ive been running BR30 followed up with LS30..As of now the plan is to buy a new 376 rotating assembly through GPI, new diamond pistons, callie rods, callie crank and all new bearings..Gonna pull my short block and have my local shop clean out and assemble for me..Should be back up and running relatively quick..Thanks for all the support and helpful comments. Definitely sucks but comes with the territory. Build,race,break repeat ill post some caranage photos when I get her out __________________ MODS: GPI MAX Package ported and milled heads+(229/250,111 LSA),Johnson 2110 Lifters,BTR .660 Springs,CHE Trunnions,C5R chain,DSX Flex Fuel kit,LSA Injectors,ZL1 Fuel Pump,MAMO Ported MSD Intake manifold,BOWhite ported Throttle body,25% UDP,CAI Intake,Intake Scoop,Kooks 1 7/8 headers,Borla attak catback,Elite catch can,BMR Motor mounts,CircleD 5C 4000-4200 Torque converter,ADM trans cooler,Jannetty Trans dipstick,DSS Aluminum Driveshaft,3.91 Gears,Eaton TrueTrac,JRE Billet caps,BMR Trailing arms,BMR Toe rods,BMR rear sway bar,Pegasus Solid sub frame bushings,DSS 1,000HP Axles

07-20-2019, 07:48 PM	#34
John_C LSx FTW!!! Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS RS Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: TN Posts: 767	In to see the new build! __________________ 2010 2SS RS A6 781rwhp on E85 Stage 2 ProCharger D1X Circle D 3400 Triple Disc Kooks Jet Hot Headers Kooks Full 3in exhaust Trick Flow GenX 255's Polished PAC .660's & Ti-retainers TSP VVT 3.2 cam kit w/DoD Delete Smith Bro's Trunnion kit AEM X-Series OBDII Widebands FIC ID1300x Injectors GM ZL1 High Output Fuel Pump DSX Tuning Flex Sensor DSX Auxiliary Fuel System Tim King Stage 4 Max Effort CTSV 6L90 DSS 1 piece aluminum driveshaft JRE 6L80E / 6L90E Dipstick NGK Iridium IX spark plugs #7 heat range Mighty Mouse Camaro 5 Wild w/-12an and Billet Black HP Tuners VCM Suite

07-21-2019, 03:28 AM	#35
Dylan1214 Drives: 2014 Camaro SS L99 Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: GrandRapids,Michigan Posts: 225 View My Garage	Done for the night, lot of progress made..one of these 4 little bastards is the culprit...My money's on number 7, my brother says three... __________________ MODS: GPI MAX Package ported and milled heads+(229/250,111 LSA),Johnson 2110 Lifters,BTR .660 Springs,CHE Trunnions,C5R chain,DSX Flex Fuel kit,LSA Injectors,ZL1 Fuel Pump,MAMO Ported MSD Intake manifold,BOWhite ported Throttle body,25% UDP,CAI Intake,Intake Scoop,Kooks 1 7/8 headers,Borla attak catback,Elite catch can,BMR Motor mounts,CircleD 5C 4000-4200 Torque converter,ADM trans cooler,Jannetty Trans dipstick,DSS Aluminum Driveshaft,3.91 Gears,Eaton TrueTrac,JRE Billet caps,BMR Trailing arms,BMR Toe rods,BMR rear sway bar,Pegasus Solid sub frame bushings,DSS 1,000HP Axles

07-20-2019, 09:12 AM	#31
Russell James Drives: '15 SS 1LE, '69 Z28 drag car Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mich Posts: 4,483	There are a lot of tricks to making rod bearings live. The higher you go up in performance and RPM, the less you want to use an OE strategy of tight aluminum bearings, OE rod bolts... Spin it way higher than the OE rev limit and that combo of not the strongest bolts, no cushioning layer of lead and copper in the bearing, clearance less than .001" (read that as less oil film thickness for cushioning)... I'd go with the COPO strategy... they've tested it to death... it works: Tri Metal racing bearings, lead/copper... COPO engines use Clevite H series. The best rod bolts ARP sells for the rods you choose. Buy a good ARP stretch gauge... install them to the exact stretch ARP advises. Not just tq'd. Use their lube, their stretch gauge. Mic measure clearances, not just plastigauge. Clearance strategy: You have an aluminum block and steel rods. The block will grow more than the rods. Give the rods a hair more bearing clearance than the mains. IE.... .0019"ish on the mains, .0022" - .0027"ish on the rods. High volume/high pressure blueprinted pump. Priority mains would be best, but if OE block, it is what it is. Racing oil with zinc/phos. Not too thick or thin. Avoid zero weight, avoid 20w50. Find the weight that gives you the right pressure for your build at WOT. Video the pressure gauge on passes. If it's pegging at WOT, no good - go thinner, you want to avoid filter bypass. But don't go all the way down to a zero weight. Really warm the engine up good before any WOT. A rod bearing spins because of lack of cushioning, clearance, oil, rod bolt fatiguing, heavy pistons/OE rod bolts zing'd way above the rev limit those parts were designed for, detonation hammers rod bearings (many racing teams, esp top fuel measure the width of their rod bearings every run, a rod bearing that gets smashed wider on that pass had detonation in that cylinder) ... Good luck with the new build!

07-21-2019, 07:38 AM	#37
zz430camaro Drives: 2015 1LE Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 1,485	Why does it look like there is a dark stain under the ports? Almost like the ports are not matching up by like an inch? __________________ 2015 1LE, TSP 225/236 113+3, VMAX Throttle Body, CAI with race scoop, GPI Ported Intake, Land Speed Stage 2 Heads, 1-7/8 headers, NPP exhaust, 25% Fluidampr, LT1-S Monster Clutch, 485 RWHP & 444 TQ

07-21-2019, 09:45 AM	#38
christianchevell old school chevy rodder Drives: 2013 2SS/RS Manual,DM exhaust,CRT Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,588 View My Garage	Hopefully your block is Ok and you then can get the proper setup to stroke it and live happier with the increased torque and power unleashed. Stuff happens.... __________________ 2021 Wild Cherry ZL1 A10, Sunroof, Data, Carbon, Nav, RotoFab Dry CAI, Elite x2, Borla ATK, Driveshaft shop

07-21-2019, 03:33 PM	#41
Dylan1214 Drives: 2014 Camaro SS L99 Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: GrandRapids,Michigan Posts: 225 View My Garage	I wondered this aswell, has something to do with the MSD intake manifold, for what ever reason it has these void squares under the ports..photos below.. The actual ports do appear to line up perfectly. __________________ MODS: GPI MAX Package ported and milled heads+(229/250,111 LSA),Johnson 2110 Lifters,BTR .660 Springs,CHE Trunnions,C5R chain,DSX Flex Fuel kit,LSA Injectors,ZL1 Fuel Pump,MAMO Ported MSD Intake manifold,BOWhite ported Throttle body,25% UDP,CAI Intake,Intake Scoop,Kooks 1 7/8 headers,Borla attak catback,Elite catch can,BMR Motor mounts,CircleD 5C 4000-4200 Torque converter,ADM trans cooler,Jannetty Trans dipstick,DSS Aluminum Driveshaft,3.91 Gears,Eaton TrueTrac,JRE Billet caps,BMR Trailing arms,BMR Toe rods,BMR rear sway bar,Pegasus Solid sub frame bushings,DSS 1,000HP Axles Last edited by Dylan1214; 07-21-2019 at 03:45 PM.

07-23-2019, 01:33 PM	#42
Russell James Drives: '15 SS 1LE, '69 Z28 drag car Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Mich Posts: 4,483	Strange seal design and recipe for leak. The OE manifold just uses a reusable rectangular seal only around the port. In those ports you can see over-torque has distorted the seal going around the intake bolts on the MSD. I'd replace those seals and use a known calibrated tq wrench.