HSA Disable Method?

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I think the best I can give you there is that your individual car works "flawlessly" for your own personal hand and foot timing.

I'm betting that you aren't trying to drive off as per sequence 3 posted earlier (more or less, clutch out to or just past the friction point before getting the throttle involved, and yes this is a very reasonable way to "drive stick"). No flame intended, I'm just old enough to be somewhere between blunt and downright crotchety about

That said . . . I have heard rumors that HSA intrusiveness was being dialed back for 2014, so maybe that snuck in as a running production change. That's as far as I'll go to concede that it might be getting better. And no, it still wouldn't be good enough for me. "OFF" means not even a little bit "ON".


Norm

I wonder if GM has made a change to the HSA system. This owner is the second recent delivery (dropspeed was the first) that has not seemed to have near the trouble that others have had. Maybe this is part of the reason for the big quality hold some of us are / have been waiting through. If so, maybe there is a retro for the older cars.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by KlugSS

After reading your last couple posts, i could see how some people that are either a) still driving the same way they drove 20 years ago or b) simply being to ***** footed to drive the car properly.

Item a) works just fine when you're left to drive by your own skills that you allow yourself to develop. Worked on anything from 100 HP inline-6 shoebox Chevvies to far more powerful V8's and axle gearing that gets you to 55 mph in 1st gear at under 5500 rpm and everything on up through anything built today. Like I've said before, it's easier on the clutch wear surfaces when you engage them at low revs and low power than when you're forced to make them slip more with more power being transmitted through them (exactly what having to overpower the HSA brakes forces you to do). Except when racing, more clutch slip than necessary = having a sloppy clutch skill level.

By the way you phrased item b) it sounds like you think more of a drag-race start is appropriate all the time and everywhere. It isn't. Wait until the snow flies again, or just the first rainstorm after a dry spell, and feel free to get back to this thread with your complaints of excessive TC and ST intervention. Some of us will then feel free to comment that "***** footed" driving is something that even you should learn (be permitted to learn, as it were).


For me, 20 years ago only covers the recent driving history (my younger kid has 20 years of driving experience herself, nearly all of it MT). Time was when you had to demonstrate the ability to start up on a hill without rolling back, as a means of demonstrating that you understood and had learned a semblance of car control.

I'm pretty sure I'm remembering correctly that back then, failure at the hill start part of the driving test either flunked you completely or maybe you got a license that limited you to driving automatics only. Having passed mine for unrestricted tranny type the first time - we actually tested for the DMV examiner straight out of H.S. Driver's Ed in manual transmission Ford Falcons, the alternatives never mattered to me. So I hope you'll excuse my uncertainty, it's been 50 years.

When I read the 'howstuffworks' article on HSA, I found it to be presented in a scary light all out of proportion to what the situation merits. You'd begin to wonder how people ever managed without it. Pure scare-mongering at its best, and the hidden scary part of that is how many people buy into it without doing any thinking of their own. That article was about HSA in general, not the stall-prone system we're discussing here, so it didn't even think to look for any downsides.


Norm

[SSRS1LE]

I think it was bandit4008 that mentioned earlier that his dealer has been testing HSA on the cars that rotated through, and that the HSA behavior was not consistent from car to car.

So it may not be that a few individuals found a special way of driving makes it less invasive. It could just be that they lucked out and got a car where HSA is less invasive than on others.

[Southern Comfort]

Or it learns driver behavior and attempts to compensate.
Anyone try a fuse pull yet?

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by Southern Comfort

Or it learns driver behavior and attempts to compensate.
Anyone try a fuse pull yet?

No offense Southern Comfort, but your statement made me laugh. It is as if any problem solving / performance improvement is just a fuse pull away! If I get my black 1LE, and don't like the color after a while, you know what I am gonna do.....wait for it.......I'm gonna try a fuse pull!!!!!!!

[natmad]

A driver that cannot beat the 2 second HSA brake hold delay must be driving it like a granny on flat ground because that's the type of driver this system will work flawlessly for.

There are certainly times in normal driving when you want the car to move forward BEFORE two seconds have elapsed after your foot leaves the brake pedal, such as quickly getting into a gap in heavy traffic. I can have my car moving forward within one second of my foot leaving the brake pedal. With HSA activated, the driver will have to wait an additional second before moving forward, or the driver will be attempting to overcome the brake hold with frustrating results.

On a QUICK start up a hill, a good driver is hurt by the HSA holding the car in place momentarily. Conversely, the HSA can help a driver that is taking off gently as if on flat ground. The experienced drivers that are having problems with HSA do not need it.

Oh, and 3:01.5 around VIR (Car and Driver Lightning Lap) constitutes a high performance sportscar in their substantial opinion.

[cornerspeed92]

Originally Posted by natmad

A driver that cannot beat the 2 second HSA brake hold delay must be driving it like a granny on flat ground because that's the type of driver this system will work flawlessly for.

There are certainly times in normal driving when you want the car to move forward BEFORE two seconds have elapsed after your foot leaves the brake pedal, such as quickly getting into a gap in heavy traffic. I can have my car moving forward within one second of my foot leaving the brake pedal. With HSA activated, the driver will have to wait an additional second before moving forward, or the driver will be attempting to overcome the brake hold with frustrating results.

On a QUICK start up a hill, a good driver is hurt by the HSA holding the car in place momentarily. Converely, the HSA can help a driver that is taking off gently as if on flat ground. The experienced drivers that are having problems with HSA do not need it.

Oh, and 3:01.5 around VIR (Car and Driver Lightning Lap) constitutes a high performance sportscar in their substantial opinion.

.......yeah what he said!

[SSRS1LE]

Originally Posted by natmad

On a QUICK start up a hill, a good driver is hurt by the HSA holding the car in place momentarily.

How embarassing would it be to get beat by a car that's 2 seconds slower because the Hill Nanny?

Originally Posted by gajagfan

No offense Southern Comfort, but your statement made me laugh. It is as if any problem solving / performance improvement is just a fuse pull away! If I get my black 1LE, and don't like the color after a while, you know what I am gonna do.....wait for it.......I'm gonna try a fuse pull!!!!!!!

I'm actually contemplating the fuse pull, except it will disable more than just HSA. Pulling fuse #40 and #43 will disable HSA, but you also lose ABS and Traction Control, and you get some lights on the dash.

But heck my first Camaro didn't have any of that stuff.......

My hsa does not hold me on a quick start. As soon as I move the car it's released.

[Buckeye]

Originally Posted by KlugSS

My hsa does not hold me on a quick start. As soon as I move the car it's released.

I can only wish mine worked that way.......

[Jim968]

Originally Posted by natmad

A driver that cannot beat the 2 second HSA brake hold delay must be driving it like a granny on flat ground because that's the type of driver this system will work flawlessly for.

There are certainly times in normal driving when you want the car to move forward BEFORE two seconds have elapsed after your foot leaves the brake pedal, such as quickly getting into a gap in heavy traffic. I can have my car moving forward within one second of my foot leaving the brake pedal. With HSA activated, the driver will have to wait an additional second before moving forward, or the driver will be attempting to overcome the brake hold with frustrating results.

On a QUICK start up a hill, a good driver is hurt by the HSA holding the car in place momentarily. Converely, the HSA can help a driver that is taking off gently as if on flat ground. The experienced drivers that are having problems with HSA do not need it.

Oh, and 3:01.5 around VIR (Car and Driver Lightning Lap) constitutes a high performance sportscar in their substantial opinion.

Agree 100%.

BTW it's a good thing they don't measure the lightning lap from a standing start in the uphill esses.

[SSRS1LE]

Originally Posted by KlugSS

My hsa does not hold me on a quick start. As soon as I move the car it's released.

You are very lucky then. If only everyone's HSA worked that way, we probably would have nearly 200 replies in here.

Want to trade cars for one the holds the brakes for 2 seconds? I'm sure plenty would oblige you. lol

[fgg60]

Originally Posted by gajagfan

I wonder if GM has made a change to the HSA system. This owner is the second recent delivery (dropspeed was the first) that has not seemed to have near the trouble that others have had. Maybe this is part of the reason for the big quality hold some of us are / have been waiting through. If so, maybe there is a retro for the older cars.

You might be on to something there!!

[SSRS1LE]

Just got back from testing the fuse pull. Here are the results:

Pulled the following two fuses:

Fuse 40 Antilock Brake System Valves
Fuse 43 Antilock Brake System Pump

Upon startup, Brake, ABS, and Stabilitrak lights stay lit.
Also displays "Service Power Steering"

I guess the electric power steering on the 2012+ ties in with the ABS somehow.

HSA is totally gone after fuse pull, as well as Traction Control and ABS. Steering feels slightly heavier at parking lot speed, but not very noticeable at normal speeds. It's strange, it doesn't feel like power steering is gone, just slightly less boosted.

Not an optimal solution, but something I wanted to try for proof of concept. I just might keep it this way until a better solution is found. No HSA, and no need to turn off traction control everytime I start the car.