Let's talk HP per $Dollar

[14pilot]

Since I'm having a problem springing $2,300 for a full exhaust, I'm looking at going a little different direction for the same money and getting much more peak HP gain per dollar spent.

Assuming these things here:

1. Starting with my bone stock LS3 'Maro
2. I'll be doing the bolt-on labor myself
3. I have a large full cylinder of Nitrous Oxide already in my garage (56 ice cold pounds of it!)
4. I have 25+ years experience using Nitrous and have it on 2 other current toys now

NOTE: I put down "0" HP gain on items that I have no idea on what they'd contribute to my total peak HP gain. Feel free to suggest numbers and I'll update here with any consensus.

What I'm having trouble justifying to myself is the cost for this common set-up: Yes, I want a full exhaust, but can't accept the cost

• $1,300 - Long Tubes w/ Hi-flow Cats - 32 HP gain
• $1,000 - Cat-back System - 0 HP gain (our most respected Tuners here say no gain)
• $250 - Tune on above components - 18 HP gain
• TOTAL HP GAIN - 50 HP
• $2,550 TOTAL COST - $51 bucks per HP gained

This is the set-up I'm considering for the same money spent:

• $76 - Magnaflow Tru-X Pipe - 0 HP gain (what will this give over the stock H-Pipe?)
• $100 - Labor to remove H-Pipe and install X-Pipe into OEM exhaust system - 0 HP gain
• $135 - Pypes Downpipes - 18 HP gain
• $389 - Vararam No Tune Intake - 22 HP gain
• $400 - Stage 1 Cam - 15 HP gain
• $600 - Cam installation labor - 0 HP gain
• $600 - Nitrous Outlet Camaro Kit - 75 HP gain
• $250 - Tune on above components - 15 HP gain
• TOTAL HP GAIN - 70 HP Motor - 145 HP with Juice
• $1,950 Motor - $2,550 JUICED - TOTAL COST - $28 bucks per HP all Motor - $18 bucks per HP on the Bottle

Take a look at my estimations and let's hear your feedback on my numbers (guesses) B.S. Flags welcome here. Please do offer your idea of better numbers to use.

[SGOS252382]

You've got a $1000.00 investment for a stage 1 cam and installation (15hp).
I would go with a different cam setup if its only going to offer 15hp.

I'd rather have set of Long tubes. With long tubes you'll also see much better gains with a cam.

[OrangeChevyII]

Sounds like you bought the wrong car to go fast with, but its all about what you wanna do. My car picked up 33 rhwp on a $350 dollar tune with no mods at all. With headers and exhaust it picked up 67 hp and made 427/428 to the wheels.

[toehead93]

You can also get Texas Speed or Pacesetter headers for about half the cost of the headers you used. To me a cam swap for 15hp is a awste of money, a mild cam can make 40hp easy and a monster can get you 60hp. I agree you don't need a catback, you can do a muffler delete and use a mufflered x-pipe instead.

[axis]

Originally Posted by toehead93

You can also get Texas Speed or Pacesetter headers for about half the cost of the headers you used. To me a cam swap for 15hp is a awste of money, a mild cam can make 40hp easy and a monster can get you 60hp. I agree you don't need a catback, you can do a muffler delete and use a mufflered x-pipe instead.

Texas Speed also has a complete exhaust system (LT's to tip) that runs $1500 without cats, $1600 with them.

[chappy48]

Originally Posted by OrangeChevyII

Sounds like you bought the wrong car to go fast with, but its all about what you wanna do. My car picked up 33 rhwp on a $350 dollar tune with no mods at all. With headers and exhaust it picked up 67 hp and made 427/428 to the wheels.

30ish on the headers I can see, but there is no way on God's green earth that you got 33rwhp from just a tune.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Bone stock LS3s make 375 RWHP, LT headers, Cold air kit, Tune makes 420 on average, for a 45 HP Gain average cost with self install and professional tune 2300.00
51 Dollars per HP.

Any time you do a cam you need to upgrade the trunions in the rockers, change out the valve springs, retainers and seals, then custom pushrod to maintain 0.050 Preload on Lifters, cost for the parts with gaskets oil, filter and fluids NO LABOR will cost around 1200.00, (I am guessing it is Late)

Average gain for a good all around cam 30 Hp but needs another tune or you can do it all together.

Cost with no labor 30.00 Per HP.

Beyond this it starts getting real expensive.

Add Labor and these numbers per HP can double.

Ted.

[caverman]

ADM has a Stage I kit that doesn't require the trunions, valve springs, retainers and seals. Andy has a dyno sheet that shows a 20 rwhp gain over stock. He said that is sounds like a stock Cam (which is why I don't want it) so you can probably get by w/o warranty issues. Complete installation is $800.

Don't know much more about it than that because I'm more intrested in his Stage II Cam which is only $1,200 for complete install including a custom tune. Stage II will probably only pick up 30 rwhp (just guessing) but it will sound 10x meaner than the Stage I.

One step at a time for me. The Stage II will require headers/exhaust so I'll have to save up for that. I just hope more Mfgs come out with more reasonably priced options. I would love the ARH headers but $2,500 + install on a complete 3" system with Magnaflow. That HURTS!

[OrangeChevyII]

Originally Posted by chappy48

30ish on the headers I can see, but there is no way on God's green earth that you got 33rwhp from just a tune.

My car dynoed 360/371 with 114 miles. 115 with a tune it made 393/39x. My tuner is good at it, must be the reason my car ran 12.30's too on the stock 20's.

[SSTony]

best HP gain for the dollar is headers CAI and underdrive pully. After the good tune you should see about 60hp if that. plus you get a sick ass sound with headers.

[chappy48]

Originally Posted by OrangeChevyII

My car dynoed 360/371 with 114 miles. 115 with a tune it made 393/39x. My tuner is good at it, must be the reason my car ran 12.30's too on the stock 20's.

Right, your tuner is so good he can find 33rwhp on a stock car, without adding any mods other then a tune, when everyone else is getting 5, maybe 10. Sorry, but the is still raised.

I can gain 20+hp without doing anything. Just switch from SAE corrected numbers to uncorrected on a good cold day. Doesn't mean I actually made any gains.

Also, my car gained 14rwhp on the dyno without doing anything...took 6 runs for the numbers to stop climbing. Since we're talking about hp/$ what does that come out to? $0 spent 14hp gained. Can't get any better then that.

My point is there are plenty of ways to make it look like you gained a bunch of hp when in all actuality you didn't.

[OrangeChevyII]

Maybe you should look at all the fastest list, 6 hp for a tune? Who in the hell picks up 6 hp to the wheels in a tune?

Your a joke man.

[OrangeChevyII]

My check list goes as followed:
First 2010 Camaro to run 11's with a stock long block N/A
First 2010 Camaro to run 10's period
Fastest 2010 Camaro with a 6 speed and a stock long block

Now the only 2 that are faster then me are a 427 F1 car, and a 468 Nitrous car. The only car on the N/A list faster then me is a 427 Auto car, he's not even a half of tenth faster then my current ET.

Im not going to argue over BS dyno number's on a stock car, My currnet dyno numbers are 533/493 and 740/770.

[OrangeChevyII]

Originally Posted by Anthony @ LG Motorsports

Hi guys,

We did a little update to our local customer's 2010 6spd manual Camaro last week and added some of our ported and milled LS3 cylinder heads and FAST 102mm intake manifold. Now we have not ported the intake yet, and he is still using a stock 90mm throttle body for the time being. The results on both HP and TQ were very nice.



Just as a recap, the runs you are looking at above include:

• LG Long Tube headers
• 100mm Cold air induction
• G6X3 cam kit
• LG ported LS3 heads (530hp run)
• FAST 102mm intake manifold (530hp run)

Once that was finished we added a 150 HP nitrous shot. Pulls below show nitrous before and after the heads and intake manifold. Sorry for the signal loss between 4000 and 4500 RPM.




For those of you keeping track here is the above dyno also with the curve of the car with bolt on's only (LG 1 7/8" headers, 100mm Cold Air, MagnaFlow mufflers and tune).



A little bit of porting work to the intake and addition of a larger throttle body should see even more gains!!



Anthony
LG Motorsports
972-429-1963
anthony@lgmotorsports.com

Get my point?