[SomeGeoffGuy]

Tell 'em David!

-Geoff

[Megahurtz]

Originally Posted by Marty McFlew

Can you make me an exhaust that sounds as sweet as this.

You can't make an Aluminum smallblock sound like a big cube iron block car no matter what exhaust you put on it.

[david borla]

Originally Posted by Marty McFlew

Can you make me an exhaust that sounds as sweet as this.

We have a badass group of mufflers made especially for a Chevy 396 Big Block.

https://www.borla.com/products/crate...t__400852.html

https://www.borla.com/products/crate...t__400851.html

[MAGAUSA]

Those are 1 tenth the cost of mufflers for this car.

[MAGAUSA]

Sorry, math was off, It's $520 for two mufflers.

[enzia35]

That's $300 difference between the 11922 and what David posted above. And what David posted are only the mufflers, no tips, and you'll have a bunch more welding to do to attach to the car. The axle backs are bolt on.

[MAGAUSA]

It's a difference of $600 considering the non NPP dual tip is $1100, so $300 a muffler for tips. Another $600 in total for OEM valves. It adds up quickly. $300 a side per tip per valve sounds about right.

[Marty McFlew]

Originally Posted by david borla

We have a badass group of mufflers made especially for a Chevy 396 Big Block.

https://www.borla.com/products/crate...t__400852.html

https://www.borla.com/products/crate...t__400851.html

I want this sound for my SS 376.

[USAFS197]

Originally Posted by david borla

We offer an axle-back for the 2016-2017 SS which can be bought for $730.99 - https://www.phastekperformance.com/2...aust-11922.htm

This does not have the NPP functionality but, I was well aware of the existence of this product. Its price is much more reasonable for what you're getting.

We also have a broad spectrum of other axle-backs with different tip options, mid-pipes that can be added later to further dial in the sound that's right for you, some with 2 sound levels/valves and some without, we even offer competition headers for purpose built race-cars with specially designed 3" cat-backs to go with them.

You guys picked the most extreme and expensive option to criticize which doesn't tell the whole story and it's a bit unfair to paint us with that brush when we have so many more affordable options available.

It was an advantageous jab at what seems like price gouging. Prices as a whole for exhaust options have gone up for this platform--that's hard to deny, hence the defensiveness of buyers.

We've been through this pricing thing a few times on this forum and the end result typically demonstrates that our pricing is well within the boundaries of what's reasonable when compared to the competition. Hundreds of Camaro owners who have made purchases of Borla systems and other brands came to this conclusion on their own so I should probably just let this play out and stay out of it because you guys seem to figure this out on your own, in time.

I don't think anyone is attempting to downplay your exhaust. Its good but,
it's not that good, you know? Especially with respect to the brands/materials you are attempting to argue below.

The thing is, it truly disappoints me that any of you feel this way because the reality is that we've gone to great lengths to provide a whole slew of exhaust solutions for Camaro6 that are all of great value. We're bringing technology, design, quality, durability, material and style at a lower price point lower than anyone else in our space, and Made In The USA, by hand to boot. After going through this so many times with you guys I'm confident our systems are the greatest value at any price for your car.

This is a free market with dozens of competitors, we're a small family owned business and Camaro is a "must-win" platform for us. We wouldn't have held our position in the market for 40 years if we were greedy.

Absolutely. I couldn't fault you for making money where and how you can.
You're in the business to make money, not give away exhaust systems. Greedy, however, is a matter of context. What's the running price on the T-304 you guys use these days? Are these the same S-Type mufflers you used on the previous generation Camaro or another platform or were they specifically designed for the 6th gen Camaro? If they were, can you offer insight as to why you needed to create a muffler for just this car?

Since you mention Titanium systems with bi-modal/valves and Carbon Fiber tips, here are a few examples of what properly designed and engineered systems made from those materials, with valves cost.

$4,167 - https://www.southerncarparts.com/cor...ck-p-7684.html

$4,500 - https://www.agency-power.com/shop/ti...yder-speciale/

$6,731 - https://n4sm.com/bmw-f80-m3-evolutio...bon-fiber-tips

Yeah, sorry. I'm not going to offer any sympathy here. You're looking at vehicles that already cost a premium, using titanium piping. Is your axle back using titanium piping? Also, for those brands you're mentioning, I would absolutely expect to pay those prices.

From strictly a pricing perspective, the differences between these systems and ours is a few pounds in weight due to the weight difference of Titanium vs. T-304. The weight difference is about the same as what a typical gym bag weighs. We also incorporate patented technology that no one else can offer which is why we sound so unique. We're less than half the price.

We're bringing features and benefits that have been reserved for the 1% to the masses and I wish you guys would see that because it took a lot of work and sacrifice to accomplish and we're proud that we've been able to do it.

David, at the end of the day, no one is saying that Borla is a bad brand or anything of the sort. I've had Borla products before and would consider them in the future, however, not for this platform and not for that price--but to be fair, the prices for virtually all of the catbacks available are high.

You get the folks who will chime in and say, "You gotta pay to play." Sure, of course you do. But I'm not going to arbitrarily throw my money at a catback for sound and maybe a few horsepower. That seems like an awful waste of money when I could spend it on some longtubes or elsewhere and make as much if not more power. I don't think anyone legitimately believes the marketing hype that most of these systems come with, advertising sizable horsepower and torque gains on a stock vehicle, let alone lightly modified.

For the few who I know personally that own this platform, I avidly oppose the idea of purchasing a catback or axle back to them.

[MSboy91]

Guys, I got a muffler delete done at a local shop for $60. $60!!! Can't beat it. Car sounds like a beast now. Doesn't drone at all when cruising on the highway. I'm gonna stick to this until I get ready to fully mod my car.....in about 4 years lol

[SomeGeoffGuy]

Originally Posted by USAFS197

For the few who I know personally that own this platform, I avidly oppose the idea of purchasing a catback or axle back to them.

I would 100% recommend a new cat-back for cars that are not equipped with NPP. But if the car has NPP, then I think you have to really want it LOUD to upgrade. And lets face it, a lot of people want it loud.

-Geoff

[brantley847]

Originally Posted by SomeGeoffGuy

I would 100% recommend a new cat-back for cars that are not equipped with NPP. But if the car has NPP, then I think you have to really want it LOUD to upgrade. And lets face it, a lot of people want it loud.

-Geoff

Correct. And as he and I said, throw long tubes on the NPP then. If you don't want the tune, then muffler delete. The volume change from stock to many aftermarket exhausts is NOT enough for me to pull the trigger unless I'm coupling it with LTs and/or cam. As I did for my 5th gen, the cat back significantly improved my SS tone but the volume hike wasn't something I'd dish 1-2k for without the headers

[obarry13]

Originally Posted by brantley847

Correct. And as he and I said, throw long tubes on the NPP then. If you don't want the tune, then muffler delete. The volume change from stock to many aftermarket exhausts is NOT enough for me to pull the trigger unless I'm coupling it with LTs and/or cam. As I did for my 5th gen, the cat back significantly improved my SS tone but the volume hike wasn't something I'd dish 1-2k for without the headers

That is all good and well and I agree, but all these things make the car either illegal, or require a tune = void warranty (some people care about this). The area I am in would only take 2-3 noise tickets (they love giving these out in my area) for the muffler delete and you are already at the cost of an axle back that sounds so much better.

[david borla]

Originally Posted by MAGAUSA

Those are 1 tenth the cost of mufflers for this car.

We don't offer mufflers for the Camaro6. We only sell Axel-back and Cat-back systems. which include piping, hangars, 4 tips and in some cases valves and 2 exhaust paths.

The price you see on the Cratemuffler is for one muffler, our Cat-backs and Axel--backs include 2 mufflers.

I know it's a bit confusing but we keep making the mistake of comparing a bi-modal/valved solution with a single mode/non-valved solution. The Cratemufflers have one exhaust path and no valves while our NPP offerings include 2 exhaust paths and a set of valves.

So one product is a an individual muffler with a single exhaust path while the other is a kit that includes 2 mufflers, each muffler has 2 exhaust paths (for NPP), valves to control the dual paths, hangars, and in your comparison, 4 Carbon Fiber tips

After purchasing 2 Cratemufflers, adding tips, piping and all the labor necessary to do so, you'll pay far more for Cratemufflers than you will for our bolt-on Non-NPP Axel-back.