FenwickHockey65's Great Thread of GM Knowledge

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Royal Tiger

As Jim said, Ram could be sold and Jeep would find a taker. Dodge & Chrysler have been on the block for over a decade. No one wants them. That should tell you something.

The other comment goes with brand over diversification. Ford does fine with just Ford & Lincoln, while the top three Japanese brands; Toyota, Honda, & Nissan, all have a luxury arm: Lexus, Acura, & Infiniti respectfully. VW has Audi, although you’ve seen those two get farther apart and into differ directions in the last 10 years. If GM is pulling it off with 4 makes, then good for them. China has been driving Buick’s global numbers, but domestically they weren’t that great recently. Kudos if they’ve turned that around. A “base” & “luxury” brand market strategy makes sense for all these other companies, hence my comment. Feel free to actually respond with a valid discussion point.

Buick is doing great EXCEPT for Envision in US. Envision sells great in China (shocker...) but not so well here. Enclave, on the other hand is flying off the lots, and that’s the money play.

Ford is doing okay with 1-1/2 brands (Lincoln is struggling worse than Cadillac), but if you look at the GLOBAL players, VW Group has about 10 brands, Toyota has about 5, Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi has 5 or 6 and GM has 7 or 8.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by Royal Tiger

... Feel free to actually respond with a valid discussion point.

Jim has already posted valid points, but my thoughts...

GMC makes GM money by basically being the same product with a different skin. Don't like the Chevy version so much? Well maybe the GMC is more your speed. It gives the buyer more options. I am a perfect example of this. My wife and I don't care much for the Chevy Equinox. We like what it has to offer, but looks are important to us, and in our opinion, it isn't appealing. The Terrain on the other hand is attractive, so that's what we bought. Sale goes to GM. Without the Terrain, our money would have gone into a used Lincoln. If I was in the fullsize truck market, I'd also likely buy something else over the Chevy (especially the 2019 model) but the Sierra looks nice to my eyes.

Buick is important b/c it gives GM a fantastic presence in a different market and sells well. Nuff said.

RAM/Jeep are important b/c they actually makes FCA money, which they can use to funnel toward other divisions if they so choose. Sure I guess they could dump Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/RAM, but only if they choose to shrink their program significantly down to niche products again.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Jim has already posted valid points, but my thoughts...

GMC makes GM money by basically being the same product with a different skin. Don't like the Chevy version so much? Well maybe the GMC is more your speed. It gives the buyer more options. I am a perfect example of this. My wife and I don't care much for the Chevy Equinox. We like what it has to offer, but looks are important to us, and in our opinion, it isn't appealing. The Terrain on the other hand is attractive, so that's what we bought. Sale goes to GM. Without the Terrain, our money would have gone into a used Lincoln. If I was in the fullsize truck market, I'd also likely buy something else over the Chevy (especially the 2019 model) but the Sierra looks nice to my eyes.

Buick is important b/c it gives GM a fantastic presence in a different market and sells well. Nuff said.

RAM/Jeep are important b/c they actually makes FCA money, which they can use to funnel toward other divisions if they so choose. Sure I guess they could dump Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/RAM, but only if they choose to shrink their program significantly down to niche products again.

I think I read somewhere that the Chevy versions basically account for some crazy number like 90% of the R&D costs, that is why GMC is still around it is almost pure profit, especially in the high trims.

Question on Buick though, if it is really only around for overseas why does it need to be here still?

[FenwickHockey65]

https://www.motortrend.com/news/buic...sales-success/


I'll just leave this here.

[Royal Tiger]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Jim has already posted valid points, but my thoughts...

GMC makes GM money by basically being the same product with a different skin. Don't like the Chevy version so much? Well maybe the GMC is more your speed. It gives the buyer more options. I am a perfect example of this. My wife and I don't care much for the Chevy Equinox. We like what it has to offer, but looks are important to us, and in our opinion, it isn't appealing. The Terrain on the other hand is attractive, so that's what we bought. Sale goes to GM. Without the Terrain, our money would have gone into a used Lincoln. If I was in the fullsize truck market, I'd also likely buy something else over the Chevy (especially the 2019 model) but the Sierra looks nice to my eyes.

Buick is important b/c it gives GM a fantastic presence in a different market and sells well. Nuff said.

RAM/Jeep are important b/c they actually makes FCA money, which they can use to funnel toward other divisions if they so choose. Sure I guess they could dump Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep/RAM, but only if they choose to shrink their program significantly down to niche products again.

Fiat wants out of Chrysler-Dodge. It’s been 10 years of please someone buy it. Ram & Jeep make money, so they could always pair that with Alfa. That would be interesting.

As for Jim’s global comment, it’s completely misleading. Yes VW group has multiple brands, but is anyone cross shopping a SEAT with a Bentley or Lamborghini? Even at the lower end, SEAT, VW, and Skoda rarely go head to head. My point is GM has too much domestic overlap and it’s a fair point to discuss slimming the profile.

[90503]

Unfortunately for Camaro and Chevy in general, the success of Buick is dependent on having higher quality content....GM has enough trouble trying not to compete with itself, much less from other auto makers....Buick quality and trim must be in between Cadillac and Chevrolet, otherwise who needs it?....Forget about Camaro having Corvette quality....Buick and Cadillac would have to be eliminated first.


Corvette, Cadillac, Buick, Chevy (including Camaro)….Same pecking order for 60 years...

[ihada69L78]

Has there been any speculation about when the next ZL1 HP increase will happen???

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by ihada69L78

Has there been any speculation about when the next ZL1 HP increase will happen???

In the 7th generation.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by ihada69L78

Has there been any speculation about when the next ZL1 HP increase will happen???

Your question implies that there was a previous horsepower increase, and unless you mean the boost from the change in generation (5th to 6th) there hasn't been one.

[ihada69L78]

I meant anything over the current 650 either in the 6th or 7th gen.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Royal Tiger

Fiat wants out of Chrysler-Dodge. It’s been 10 years of please someone buy it. Ram & Jeep make money, so they could always pair that with Alfa. That would be interesting.

As for Jim’s global comment, it’s completely misleading. Yes VW group has multiple brands, but is anyone cross shopping a SEAT with a Bentley or Lamborghini? Even at the lower end, SEAT, VW, and Skoda rarely go head to head. My point is GM has too much domestic overlap and it’s a fair point to discuss slimming the profile.

My point about VW’s multiple brands, as well as the other automakers, is not a point about cross-shopping, but more about having brands differentiated by vehicle type or segment (Bentley / Lamborghini / Porsche) and/or geographical region of sale (SEAT in Spain, Skoda in Eastern Europe) and price points (VW / Audi) without significantly cannabalizing each other’s main markets. GM actually does this quite well since dropping Oldsmobile (vs Buick) Pontiac (vs Chevrolet) and Saturn (also vs Chevrolet).

Buick buyers tend not to cross shop Cadillac or Chevrolet. GMC buyers and Chevy truck buyers would seem to overlap, but the whole “Professional Grade” marketing campaign appears to have brought home the higher content message for GMC trucks, because they transact at higher prices and the demographics of the buyers show higher average income for GMC buyers.

[Royal Tiger]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

My point about VW’s multiple brands, as well as the other automakers, is not a point about cross-shopping, but more about having brands differentiated by vehicle type or segment (Bentley / Lamborghini / Porsche) and/or geographical region of sale (SEAT in Spain, Skoda in Eastern Europe) and price points (VW / Audi) without significantly cannabalizing each other’s main markets. GM actually does this quite well since dropping Oldsmobile (vs Buick) Pontiac (vs Chevrolet) and Saturn (also vs Chevrolet).

Buick buyers tend not to cross shop Cadillac or Chevrolet. GMC buyers and Chevy truck buyers would seem to overlap, but the whole “Professional Grade” marketing campaign appears to have brought home the higher content message for GMC trucks, because they transact at higher prices and the demographics of the buyers show higher average income for GMC buyers.

Jim, could you see a point in time where Buick becomes irrelevant? GMC could be replaced by high end Chevrolet’s, but I can agree it’s working so far. It just seems that the two prong, as opposed to four, seems to be more efficient.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Royal Tiger

Jim, could you see a point in time where Buick becomes irrelevant? GMC could be replaced by high end Chevrolet’s, but I can agree it’s working so far. It just seems that the two prong, as opposed to four, seems to be more efficient.

It could become irrelevant if it is mismanaged. But there is always room between mainstream and luxury. The trick is developing the content and quality of the vehicle so that it lands in the sweet spot between the two. That has always been Buick’s mission, though it has strayed away from that a time or two. It doesn’t necessarily have to have more features than Chevrolet, but it should present them in a more premium way. The leathers should be of higher quality. The fits and finishes should be of higher quality. The design language should scream premium. But it doesn’t need to have the same quality of materials or even all of the same features of a Cadillac. Cadillac should be cutting edge.

I think Buick is in good hands now. The Regal sportback and the Avenir trim level on the Enclave are great examples of Buick staying in their lane and exciting buyers. If they were just cookie cutter fascia and badge jobs off of Malibu and Traverse, then yes, Buick could become irrelevant.

[DGthe3]

As far as axing Buick, I think of it like this:

What percentage of Buicks current buyers would move down to a Chevy, what percentage would move up to a Cadillac, and what percentage would simple go elsewhere. I would guess that there won't be enough in the 2nd to cover the loss in revenue from the 1st. But most would probably just shop elsewhere.