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Old 10-22-2020, 03:28 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by gtfoxy View Post
Infrastructure is the other issue.

Virtually no long trips in the majority of the US, & unless full recharge time is less than 20min, that’s going to be a no-go for a lot of people.
Tesla owners do it all the time. One advantage Tesla has is the invested in charging stations.

See the map. Most plan on a 30 minute or so break in the drive.

https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

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Originally Posted by zirad54 View Post
i think it would be really cool to integrate solar panels for charging capability.
The Prius had this years ago. It was enough to power a small fan to help keep the interior of the car cool.

One EV company recently announced what you are suggesting and the reported it added 20 miles of range. May not be worth the cost.

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Originally Posted by jamala00 View Post
I'm not an EV fan personally. I mean I get the technology, but I'll keep my IC vehicles until they are pried from my cold dead hands. EV's will definitely be a part of our future, but I find it hard to picture them being "the future". As others have said, there is a ton of infrastructure that needs to be put in place. CA can't even keep the lights on for many of their residence, now they are going to go strictly EV?? Ok... I think some other fuel source will be the future not EV. If people can't pull in, fuel up and keep going, it will never be main stream.
With high speed charging, this truck reports you can get 100 miles of range in 10 minutes. Maybe the equivalent of a 1/4 tank. May not be fast enough for some, but it's better. Also the stations that can charge that fast are few and far between right now.

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I still say the hybrid will be more appealing to the masses. You need to be able to charge on the go. Then you can take extended trips without the recharge anxiety. EV is a nice green gimmick but how nice will it be when power companies slap a nice healthy surcharge on your "at home" charging station?
Charging for your home charger is just the beginning. They will also be charging more for your plates. There will be a loss of revenue from gas taxes that will come from somewhere.
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Old 10-22-2020, 08:21 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
Tesla owners do it all the time. One advantage Tesla has is the invested in charging stations.

See the map. Most plan on a 30 minute or so break in the drive.

https://www.tesla.com/supercharger



The Prius had this years ago. It was enough to power a small fan to help keep the interior of the car cool.

One EV company recently announced what you are suggesting and the reported it added 20 miles of range. May not be worth the cost.



With high speed charging, this truck reports you can get 100 miles of range in 10 minutes. Maybe the equivalent of a 1/4 tank. May not be fast enough for some, but it's better. Also the stations that can charge that fast are few and far between right now.



Charging for your home charger is just the beginning. They will also be charging more for your plates. There will be a loss of revenue from gas taxes that will come from somewhere.
None around me nor where I typically drive.

Also, 35-40min is a looong time to be twiddling your thumbs. On a long trip that would add hours upon hours.
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Old 10-22-2020, 08:23 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Orange ss View Post
After seeing this ..hope a next gen camaro could share some of this technology..pretty impressive

https://www.gmc.com/electric-truck/h...oJBA&gclsrc=ds
No thanks, no batteries in my sports car I drive for fun except to start it. Gas will go away one day, it has to if we want to continue to live on this planet. Why rush it? But I am perfectly ok with a totally boring EV station wagon we now call a SUV.

The wierd thing about battery powered cars is that the technology is there to make the 0-60 so fast you will pass out. Horsepower race = over. Gas cars connot compete.
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Old 10-22-2020, 08:26 AM   #18
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No thanks, no batteries in my sports car I drive for fun except to start it. Gas will go away one day, it has to if we want to continue to live on this planet. Why rush it? But I am perfectly ok with a totally boring EV station wagon we now call a SUV.

The wierd thing about battery powered cars is that the technology is there to make 0-60 so fast you will pass out. Horsepower race = over.
Stop drinking the Koolaid man.
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Old 10-22-2020, 08:33 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by gtfoxy View Post
In free markets, demand generates supply.

At the turn of the 20’th century there weren’t gas stations on every corner like today. People wanted automobiles & bought them, the oil industry made leaps to meet that rising demand.

Main difference now, is there is already a readily available energy source with high energy density. You now have a well established market availability & a fledgling one with, to a large extent, no so-called “Environmental advantage”.
Exactly! There won't be much of an "environmental advantage". In fact, the carbon footprint may be worse as the demand for electricity will mean more generation. More generation means burning more coal (or other material) to keep-up with demand. And, cleaner energy sources are detrimental as well. Nuclear power is very clean and efficient but they still have the problem of nuclear waste and what to do with it.
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Old 10-22-2020, 08:36 AM   #20
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Charging for your home charger is just the beginning. They will also be charging more for your plates. There will be a loss of revenue from gas taxes that will come from somewhere.
I believe they're already doing this in Ohio. If my memory serves me correctly, it's an extra $200/year for your registration.
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Old 10-22-2020, 08:41 AM   #21
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Exactly! There won't be much of an "environmental advantage". In fact, the carbon footprint may be worse as the demand for electricity will mean more generation. More generation means burning more coal (or other material) to keep-up with demand. And, cleaner energy sources are detrimental as well. Nuclear power is very clean and efficient but they still have the problem of nuclear waste and what to do with it.
Natural Gas is the best bio fuel, ATM. Especially since the US has the largest supply in the world.

Once we get compact cold fusion down, electric cars will be awesome & I’d be on board.
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Old 10-22-2020, 08:46 AM   #22
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I believe they're already doing this in Ohio. If my memory serves me correctly, it's an extra $200/year for your registration.
Yep.... It's $100 extra for hybrids and $200 for EV, per year.
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Old 10-22-2020, 08:50 AM   #23
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We had a Bolt loaner when our Traverse was repaired, and i have to say, i've never had my mind changed about a car so much. Going in i saw this ugly prius-like car and expected it to drive like a prius, but it didn't! I really enjoyed the power and the handling. They really did work on the driving experience. ... OK it's still ugly ...LOL. But really, it changed my mind about electric cars not being awful. With the discounts now, they are priced closer to what i'd consider an ok value.
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Old 10-22-2020, 09:01 AM   #24
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Yep.... It's $100 extra for hybrids and $200 for EV, per year.
The other flip side is the delta change to demand in relation to electricity cost.

If you calculate the number of gallons of various hydrocarbon fuels being used / day, then broke down the energy content to energy conversion you would have a, within a given percentage of error, a required energy replacement value.

You can then take average electrical energy production, from various sources, (ie, solar, wind, water, coal, etc) and track energy loss to consumer from source by mile. It’s a complex calculation, but on average electricity has a production to network loss of 70-85%. That’s not even factoring in energy conversion losses of the EV in question, which, as of right now, is at best, & I mean absolute best, of 60%.

Now factor in durability & increase demand to match the initial energy demand & you will come to an astronomical number that would require a) huge gains in electrical transmission & conversion efficiency, & b) massive per-capita investment in production capability.
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Old 10-22-2020, 09:08 AM   #25
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I really enjoy my 18’ Camry Hybrid SE I have leased the past two years. My Dad had a few Prius over the years, which were goofy and terrible. But the Camry actually has proper power and a far better ride quality (especially the “SE”). I never get worse than 40mpg regardless of city/highway (closer to 50 if I had the “LE” due to the wheels). The hybrid transitioning is really smooth and even the CVT doesn’t bother me any. For a commuter car, it’s something reliable, efficient and not an eyesore. The instantaneous torque given by the electric motor is really nice, one reason I chose the hybrid over the 4-cylinder or V-6 variant, it just feels/drives better. Plain and simple.

I personally have zero issue with EV/Hybrids, but the infrastructure is not yet ready for EV’s in my area. I don’t even know where I have seen a charge station anywhere around me, for example. If on road trips, having to seek out charge stations along my route is a bit of an annoyance, but not the end of the world of course. I like the peace of mind of a hybrid and having that ICE as a ‘backup’ worst case. Things will just continue to improve in that regard.

No question EV’s can exceed what ICE engines are capable of. Obviously, 0-60 times and all that is no match against a proper EV. Little to no maintenance and all that (oil changes, ATF fluid, etc…). But the ‘experience’ of the car itself is very different. The sounds, vibrations, etc…

I just hope automakers continue to offer options, if nothing more. For example if the Camaro does become EV for the next generation, it would be nice to have it as an option, not a requirement, while still offering an ICE option (or two). Time will tell!
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Old 10-22-2020, 09:09 AM   #26
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The Hummer EV is ugly but I like the performance potential. Makes me curious for an E or Hybrid Camaro... so long as it isn't as ugly as all the other EVs on the market. Ugh.
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Old 10-22-2020, 09:37 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Invertalon View Post
I really enjoy my 18’ Camry Hybrid SE I have leased the past two years. My Dad had a few Prius over the years, which were goofy and terrible. But the Camry actually has proper power and a far better ride quality (especially the “SE”). I never get worse than 40mpg regardless of city/highway (closer to 50 if I had the “LE” due to the wheels). The hybrid transitioning is really smooth and even the CVT doesn’t bother me any. For a commuter car, it’s something reliable, efficient and not an eyesore. The instantaneous torque given by the electric motor is really nice, one reason I chose the hybrid over the 4-cylinder or V-6 variant, it just feels/drives better. Plain and simple.

I personally have zero issue with EV/Hybrids, but the infrastructure is not yet ready for EV’s in my area. I don’t even know where I have seen a charge station anywhere around me, for example. If on road trips, having to seek out charge stations along my route is a bit of an annoyance, but not the end of the world of course. I like the peace of mind of a hybrid and having that ICE as a ‘backup’ worst case. Things will just continue to improve in that regard.

No question EV’s can exceed what ICE engines are capable of. Obviously, 0-60 times and all that is no match against a proper EV. Little to no maintenance and all that (oil changes, ATF fluid, etc…). But the ‘experience’ of the car itself is very different. The sounds, vibrations, etc…

I just hope automakers continue to offer options, if nothing more. For example if the Camaro does become EV for the next generation, it would be nice to have it as an option, not a requirement, while still offering an ICE option (or two). Time will tell!
Toyota has made some good progress on Hybrids. We like our ‘19 Highlander Hybrid.

Our ‘13 with similar options averaged about 19-20mpg for a year (we drive very short distances on average & warm-up operation during winter really cuts fuel mileage) while the ‘19 has had a year average of almost 27mpg.

I for one would be quite onboard with a Camaro that was a hybrid. If I could average 30mpg in the Z, I’d be ecstatic.
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Old 10-22-2020, 09:39 AM   #28
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The part of me that always likes new and better technology is excited for electric vehicles to eventually become the standard. EV's may be a little ways off from competing fully with IC vehicles, but they're not that far off.

The part of me that loves that V8 exhaust rumble is a little saddened thinking about mostly-silent muscle and sports cars rolling down the street. The engine is the heart and soul of a car, and the sound it makes is an expression of that.
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