ALWAYS LOOKING FOR HELP - LS3 TOP END REBUILD

[carjockey71@gmail.com]

Thank you guys AGAIN for all your help, I really mean and need it, Im wondering if I should document this top end rebuild / teardown for the forum our not, I will always have the information and be happy to share it but truthfully I am still have trouble finding documentation that goes beyond putting a cam it just for performance reasons and not because of massive failure, as always please let me know your thoughts

I have gotten so much help and advice with everything that’s gone on, I really appreciate it, after a long discussion with you better half I’m not going to pay a shop $4500 + for a top end rebuild, while my wife isnt less then happy about the this and truthfully I see her points, mainly because it is a daily driver and it ties up the car and since we work such different schedules we can’t be a one car family as it is we are renting something now, but that growing old real fast.

I can’t help thinking with with what was quoted by the shop for a OEM factory rebuild most people here would want to do this themselves, and definitely not use all OEM PARTS not only to control the cost, but the quality of the build and the job being done right and standard OEM parts can’t handle the modified work.

If I want the shop to put in performance parts the want a basket full of more money and that’s not including tuning, etc., so because this is something I have always wanted to keep and leave for my girls I think this a good idea, I hope it’s a good idea - praying it’s a good idea

I’m looking to put in a bigger cam, I know how I want it to sound but I forgot a lot about lift and degree, etc., I need new lifters, rods, and everything else this top end failed because cylinder 6 lifter got a flat spot didn’t move the rod and grooved the cam lob out, there is a TSB on this it’s PIP4138Q

As most of you guys know I have called myself a NOOB even though I have been fooling around with cars my entire life, the last cam set I did was 30 years ago, I have read stuff about rebuilding the top and then I read something that contradicts so for all of your guys who have done this continue to chimes in with great advice and offer any tips you have

I have budget of about $1500 - $2000, might be able to stretch more but I would prefer to stay on budget. I see packages by a few different performance companies with different ranges and different prices for all kinds of stuff, I’m like a kid in a candy store, the things I would love to do, but for now - eventually I will put long pipes and delete the cats, other things like that, so I would tried to reflect my current build and not need to do this again unless I am going to pull the engine and start fresh, is it worth it to reusing the heads or get new heads what about ported heads, what the best head rebuilding materials when replace the valves, guides, push rods, cam, lifters, etc., etc, I have read about using stock length, not using stock length, change the oil pump don’t change the oil pump, use LS2 timing set to avoid the plastic tensioner, use a LS9 cam, etc with so much information part recommendations it would be get to get your build specs if you’ve down this, especially if you built it yourself, I would like my build to work together so I’m not sure how using different parts and manufactures will work - exactly which I am always looking and interested in advice

Some of you guys have been so kind with your time and reached out to help me, not only by offering great advice but giving me recommendations for parts and people to deal with as always I am very appreciative and thank you all so much

Before I start ordering all these parts I just wanted to see if anyone had anymore advice about anything, go through the do’s and don’t of top end engine rebuilding and hopefully come out the other side with a respectable build. I would be interested to know what kind of numbers I will get since in HP increases because the car is 100% stock.

Please let me know what think, ordering day is coming



Paul

[zlathim]

I haven't read your other threads, but if I understand correctly, you had a bad lifter on cylinder #6, which destroyed the cam lobe. Your engine now needs a camshaft and lifters at the very least. You want to do the work yourself instead of paying a shop, and you want to sprinkle in some performance parts. Your budget is $1.5k to $2k.

Your budget is about right for a simple cam install. By the time you buy a camshaft, lifters, pushrods and springs, you will likely be pushing the budget, unless you find some great deals. You have to remove the cylinder heads to R&R the lifters, so you need a head gasket set. Keep in mind that you will likely make a couple of $100 trips to the local parts store too. If your stock heads are good, I see no need to mess with them besides installing the new springs, and your budget probably won't allow it anyway. Whoever you buy your camshaft from should be able to recommend some lifters and the correct length pushrods you will need.

The question of whether to replace the oil pump will likely bring up a debate. I just did a cam swap and I didn't replace my oil pump. The car has always had great oil pressure, so I let sleeping dogs lie. I know some guys have had problems with the o-ring on the pick up tube and it looks like you have to drop the oil pan to do it correctly. I didn't want to do that, so I left it alone. The timing chain tensioner is behind the oil pump, so I didn't replace that either. All I did was replace the small side plastic piece because I broke it messing with the chain. I expect to see guys in here telling you it is stupid to do the cam without doing the oil pump. In the end, it is your car and you will have to decide.

You will need tools to remove and install the balancer (crank pulley), as well as a valve spring compressor tool in addition to your basic hand tools. You don't need the lifter holding rods because you will be removing the lifters. If you have air conditioning, you will need to replace the stretch fit A/C belt. You also need a tool for the belt install, and a new stretch fit belt. (just cut the old one of with a knife on disassembly) Keep these costs in mind when calculating your budget.

Here are the tools I purchased and the price:

Ares 71002 Balancer puller- $37 on amazon
Royalo GM LS balancer installer tool- $14.99 on amazon
Comp Cams 5462 valve spring tool $100 on amazon (you will have more options because you are removing the heads)
Gates 91030 belt install tool- $9 on amazon
Gates K040373SF A/C belt- $31 on amazon

Good luck. Hopefully others will chime in with advice as well.

[yzinger]

Sorry for your loss



Yes, document it here.

[carjockey71@gmail.com]

http://

[205]

Yikes. I feel your pain man. Do you have an LS3 or L99?

[Avenging Orange]

Just keep in mind (as some of us have replied in your other posts), one thing begets another. If you start looking into an aftermarket cam, you will be looking at the extra cost of headers and a tune. Oil pump is a coin flip. If it ain't broke......
The LS3 in stock form is a stout bastard. Simply adding long tubes and a tune makes it one he'll of a drive.

[carjockey71@gmail.com]

LS3

No AFM (Advance Fuel Management) 6 Speed Standard Shift

[Joecruiser]

My thoughts, first and foremost...keep the lil lady happy.
Keep the cam mild...think of the girls later on.

Do start a build thread with lots of pics.
Might as well install the headers while you're in there.

Most specialty tools can be loaned out free at most auto parts stores, which as mentioned...you and you're wallet will get very well acquainted with.

Best of luck am kudos for willing to tackle this project.

[lionssfan]

Originally Posted by carjockey71@gmail.com

Thank you guys AGAIN for all your help, I really mean and need it, Im wondering if I should document this top end rebuild / teardown for the forum our not, I will always have the information and be happy to share it but truthfully I am still have trouble finding documentation that goes beyond putting a cam it just for performance reasons and not because of massive failure, as always please let me know your thoughts

I have gotten so much help and advice with everything that’s gone on, I really appreciate it, after a long discussion with you better half I’m not going to pay a shop $4500 + for a top end rebuild, while my wife isnt less then happy about the this and truthfully I see her points, mainly because it is a daily driver and it ties up the car and since we work such different schedules we can’t be a one car family as it is we are renting something now, but that growing old real fast.

I can’t help thinking with with what was quoted by the shop for a OEM factory rebuild most people here would want to do this themselves, and definitely not use all OEM PARTS not only to control the cost, but the quality of the build and the job being done right and standard OEM parts can’t handle the modified work.

If I want the shop to put in performance parts the want a basket full of more money and that’s not including tuning, etc., so because this is something I have always wanted to keep and leave for my girls I think this a good idea, I hope it’s a good idea - praying it’s a good idea

I’m looking to put in a bigger cam, I know how I want it to sound but I forgot a lot about lift and degree, etc., I need new lifters, rods, and everything else this top end failed because cylinder 6 lifter got a flat spot didn’t move the rod and grooved the cam lob out, there is a TSB on this it’s PIP4138Q

As most of you guys know I have called myself a NOOB even though I have been fooling around with cars my entire life, the last cam set I did was 30 years ago, I have read stuff about rebuilding the top and then I read something that contradicts so for all of your guys who have done this continue to chimes in with great advice and offer any tips you have

I have budget of about $1500 - $2000, might be able to stretch more but I would prefer to stay on budget. I see packages by a few different performance companies with different ranges and different prices for all kinds of stuff, I’m like a kid in a candy store, the things I would love to do, but for now - eventually I will put long pipes and delete the cats, other things like that, so I would tried to reflect my current build and not need to do this again unless I am going to pull the engine and start fresh, is it worth it to reusing the heads or get new heads what about ported heads, what the best head rebuilding materials when replace the valves, guides, push rods, cam, lifters, etc., etc, I have read about using stock length, not using stock length, change the oil pump don’t change the oil pump, use LS2 timing set to avoid the plastic tensioner, use a LS9 cam, etc with so much information part recommendations it would be get to get your build specs if you’ve down this, especially if you built it yourself, I would like my build to work together so I’m not sure how using different parts and manufactures will work - exactly which I am always looking and interested in advice

Some of you guys have been so kind with your time and reached out to help me, not only by offering great advice but giving me recommendations for parts and people to deal with as always I am very appreciative and thank you all so much

Before I start ordering all these parts I just wanted to see if anyone had anymore advice about anything, go through the do’s and don’t of top end engine rebuilding and hopefully come out the other side with a respectable build. I would be interested to know what kind of numbers I will get since in HP increases because the car is 100% stock.

Please let me know what think, ordering day is coming



Paul

I removed my oil pan completely. I fought and fought the pickup tube trying put the new oil pump back on. I even dropped the front oil of pan. I fought it so bad I ended up removing the pan and buying a new pickup tube, because I bent the original. It's too easy to mess up the o-ring on the pickup tube also going back on. Plus I always had a small oil leak on the back side of the pan since I had the car. So I replaced the pan gasket and used the gm sealant (gray). No leaks at all now. So on my cam install and valve train kit. I installed a new melling oil pump, new chain, and ls2 damper. Having heard problems with the factory tensioner failing sometimes. and never heard the ls2 damper failure, just nosier but who cares with a noisy cam and exhaust. Melling pump seemed like a good idea with 64,000 miles and chain that was cheap replacement. considering you have the front torn apart anyway because of the cam. why not be done with it. Later mods down the road too your set to go and done with the front cover cheap insurance. And of course 3 bolt cam gear. You can have the heads CNC for 500.00 thru Katech. But that's getting over your budget. I got my stuff thru BTR I like the hands on help with them for the do it yourselfer. My two cents worth

[Russell James]

How bad is the cam lobe? If a lot of damage, and it shed a lot of metal... I'd pull the engine and tear it down to the bare block.

That metal debris hides everywhere. And people often mistakenly think all gets caught by the filter. Except in reality, filters spend a lot of time in bypass.

Also a failed lifter is prone to tear up the lifter bore. Could use a boroscope to check the lifter bore. Any lifter bore damage needs to be sleeved. They rely on a .001" clearance. Too much, or grooved, lifters will be noisy and fail again. Use a snap gauge and mic to measure all lifter bores top to bottom. Lifters that have beat up a cam lobe often oval out the bottom of the bore. Tough to see from the top. I've seen plenty where people visually say they are fine... stick a snap gauge down there to actually measure it.

[lionssfan]

Originally Posted by Russell James

How bad is the cam lobe? If a lot of damage, and it shed a lot of metal... I'd pull the engine and tear it down to the bare block.

That metal debris hides everywhere. And people often mistakenly think all gets caught by the filter. Except in reality, filters spend a lot of time in bypass.

Also a failed lifter is prone to tear up the lifter bore. Could use a boroscope to check the lifter bore. Any lifter bore damage needs to be sleeved. They rely on a .001" clearance. Too much, or grooved, lifters will be noisy and fail again. Use a snap gauge and mic to measure all lifter bores top to bottom. Lifters that have beat up a cam journal often oval out the bottom of the bore. Tough to see from the top. I've seen plenty where people visually say they are fine... stick a snap gauge down there to actually measure it.

great information

[carjockey71@gmail.com]

Bad Cam :

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[carjockey71@gmail.com]

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[carjockey71@gmail.com]

I’m trying post a picture of the cam - anyone give me a hand it’s on photobucket, doing my best . . .

http://s1236.photobucket.com/user/carjockey1/library/