10-02-2023, 11:05 AM | #29 |
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This is where I kind of see both sides of the issue. If the company's profits are so exorbitant, raises should be in line with that. But you can't give people raises in unions without an approval in salary adjustments in the contract.
In non-union companies, the company can simply give employees huge raises or bonuses arbitrarily, any time they want, for whatever the company wants to give. On the other hand, stamping trunk lids and door skins all day, or installing suspension assemblies all day, is not really a highly skilled job nor does it require a lot of training or knowledge. I'm not disparaging automotive factory work, but building a car (or anything) on an assembly line requires very little training in comparison to a skilled trade or job that requires an associates or BS or BA degree. So the question there is: why should anyone putting a car together, who's position on the assembly line is generally mastered by anyone who walks through the door and pays attention and puts in the effort in training within a month or two, be paid anywhere close to the people who actually design and engineer the car? Those people have taken months and years worth of multiple levels of calculus, physics, and other engineering and production classes. They've studied hard, forgone many nights hanging out with friends to do homework or study for mid-terms and finals, and dedicated at least 4 years of their life to understanding engineering and design concepts that are completely foreign and impossible to anyone who hasn't. Just like what is being developed in the fast food industry now due to people "demanding" McDonalds pay $15/hr or more, the automobile industry will find more ways to introduce robotic and automated production into the few steps remaining that require humans if the union keeps demanding large raises. Whether you believe that is right or wrong isn't even a question. It comes down to costs and numbers in black and white on a sheet of paper.
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10-02-2023, 11:07 AM | #30 |
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^ thruth! thank you!
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10-02-2023, 11:32 AM | #31 | |
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10-02-2023, 11:42 AM | #32 |
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That I don’t know. I don’t follow Cadillac production volumes. Hopefully they have enough orders to keep people working.
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24 2SS 1LE, Riptide Blue, A10, PDR. Picked up 11/5/23, 560 miles.
23 ZLE Rapid Blue, M6. 6/27/22 TPW. Off assembly line on July 12th, 2022. To Dealer August 6th. Delivered August 8th. 129 miles. 99 SS Vert, Hugger Orange, A4, 806 miles 94 Z28, Black, M6, 595 miles 92 Z28, last car built at Van Nuys Plant, Red, A4, 125 miles www.last1992camaro.com 69 Z28, Dusk Blue, M4 29 Ford Business Coupe 28 Ford Pickup 24 GMC Denali 2500HD CCSB 4x4 22 Jeep Grand Cherokee 13 Ford F150 Crew Cab 4x4 |
10-02-2023, 12:18 PM | #33 | |
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10-02-2023, 12:51 PM | #34 | |
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Seems like they will be over staffed after the Camaro goes away; at least until they're ready to start building some new model vehicle. All of those thousands of hours a month spent building Camaro's will need go somewhere. |
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10-02-2023, 03:27 PM | #35 | |
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Pointing out some easily proven facts: 1. Accounting for inflation, $15/hr is less than what minimum wage was back in the 70's and 80's. 2. One could argue that if you really wanted to save money, you could move 100% of auto production out of the country. One could also argue that highly educated people in other countries can even do the jobs of highly educated American workers. Why pay any American for what you can get elsewhere? I bet you could get someone in India to do Mary Bara's job for 300,000 rather than the 30 million paid to Bara. 3. Sooner or later, when real wages are driven down to match those of the third world, you wont have any customers. From the history I've read, unions came to be because wages of the time would not support a decent standard of living. It would seen we are heading back there. In fact, I wouldnt be surprised to see an expansion of unions again, especially since the recent 30% inflation has reduced real wages. |
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10-02-2023, 03:58 PM | #36 | |
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Didn't read past that point, because facts are already wrong. |
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10-02-2023, 04:39 PM | #37 | |
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10-02-2023, 05:31 PM | #38 | |
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"what are the first jobs in corporate America that AI can take over and do better right now?" The answer: CEOs.
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10-02-2023, 06:49 PM | #39 | |
Hail to the King baby!
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And wages are a Lonnnnng way from 3rd world. GM plants in Mexico I think with the latest deal may be $7?? UAW today is making SIGNIFICANTLY more than the competitors do in the US (Smyrna, Chatanooga, Marysville, on and on) that arguably make higher per quality products. The Union is clearly not engaged in ensuring the employers stay competitive and have the ability to build qualit6 products. As long as you hear the UAW ignoring or dismissing discussion on absenteeism you will know this is the case. Lol they said, I’d you pay us for 40 hours but only ask us to work 32 hours absenteeism should BE LESS. Not go away, but simply be better. 20% of the workers with really good wages and a pension WITH healthcare don’t even show up every day. So GM has to employee 20% extra workers. Have you heard the union even suggest to GM or Ford, “hey, we can get the workers to actually show up if you will just give that extra 20% of waste to the workers? Nope And by the way, it is a hard job. Relentless and repetitive. Yes with breaks they work 6 1/2 hours and get paid for 8 (wait and they want to work 32 and get paid for 40?? They get that now I guess so what is the ask?). I’ve worked on the line and it’s hard work.
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10-02-2023, 06:52 PM | #40 |
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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...9&opi=89978449
How many of you all remember this. Goes along what olrocker was saying. Seems not much skill is needed. |
10-02-2023, 07:28 PM | #41 | |
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Few of them pay much better than $15/hr. And there’s good reason. Because it’s not worth it. Someone quits? There’s 10 others willing to sign up, with no education or background, and they can be trained quickly. Again, this isn’t an opinion meant to knock assembly line workers even though I’m sure they and maybe you might take it as such. It’s just the truth. Like my Grandpa who worked in a DuPont chemical plant on the shore where Lake Erie and Cuyahoga River meet making soda silicate from 1946-1982 told me: if you don’t want health problems but want to make lots of money when you’re older, get trained or get an education. Without that you’ll be sick and poor and waiting for your social security check like me.
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10-02-2023, 09:12 PM | #42 | |
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A government inflation calculator would be the dead last thing I would use for calculating inflation and the CPI inflation calculations are on the low side when comparing the historical prices of everyday goods and commodities. Still, even that results in a minimum wage of over $12/hr |
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