Shno's House of Z

[ShnOmac]

Hey JP what kind of toys are yall going to create for the Sonic?

[ShnOmac]

Hey JP I thought this would be a better place to discuss this topic so we can stay away from all the drama.

Originally Posted by JusticePete

[*]Continuous increases in RWHP offer diminishing returns

The entire post was incredible as usual but this one part really jumped out at me. We really are at the point of diminishing returns when it comes to power so where do we go next to keep improving performance? From a manufacture point of view not after market.... Any ideas?

[2cnd chance]

If the LSA was/could be upped to 15 psi what would the HP be?

I believe that is what the 13' GT500 is going to have for it's 650 HP.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

Hey JP what kind of toys are yall going to create for the Sonic?

Springs and coilovers are in production. Sways are next. We are evaluating bushings.

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

Hey JP I thought this would be a better place to discuss this topic so we can stay away from all the drama.

The entire post was incredible as usual but this one part really jumped out at me. We really are at the point of diminishing returns when it comes to power so where do we go next to keep improving performance? From a manufacture point of view not after market.... Any ideas?

If I were building the next generation Camaro I wouldn't be too worried about power. We know GM can make power in just about any engine configuration of displacement. I would focus on using the power just as they did on the ZL1. MRC and the associated electronics will play a key role.

Next on my list would be wheel wells, wheel and tire size. All we have to do is look at the ZR1 wheel and tire package and compare it to the ZL1.

ZL1 Curb Weight 4120Front P285/35ZR20 Rear P305/35ZR20
ZR1 Curb Weight 3353 Front P285/30ZR19 Rear P335/25ZR20

More weight and smaller contact patch? Some of this is cost, but I think the constraints of a shared platform limit the amount of wheel and tire that can be fit. How about we shrink the wheel arch while we increase the wheel well depth? Then we run into the cost of rubber in this size range, but I really don't think cost of rubber was a factor in the ZL1. It was more along the line of how much rubber can we stuff in the body work.

Weight is the other area to target. Weight reduction is expensive. A stamped steel arm may be cheaper, but an light lighter alloy arm is better. Technology will play a role here as companies are being forced to reduce weight for fuel economy. The more use lighter materials the lower the cost will be as they develop improved technology. What we now consider to be exotic material like carbon fiber will become mainstream. Shrinking the overall size is almost inevitable.

Long story short, weight and rubber. Now let's get #3 who has actually designed production vehicles to weigh in... after he stops rolling on the floor laughing about my assumptions of what transpired with the ZL1.

[htron50]

If I may chime in, Mac baited the hook, JP bit, and 3 will be here shortly to REEL you in!! (for what its worth)

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by htron50

If I may chime in, Mac baited the hook, JP bit, and 3 will be here shortly to REEL you in!! (for what its worth)

It's been a while since we had a good technical discussion in here. I thought this would be a good thought provoking discussion!

It works better when everyone chimes in....

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

ShnOman, I think it's time the members in good standing of this fine House create an abbreviation in code for what used to be referred to as trolls...

For your valued consideration, may I offer... I-I ...and NOT aye-aye, but sounding the same.

I-I = Internet Idiot

Just a thought...

We used to have a code for new members who stirred up trouble. Don't remember what it was...

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

I-I it is!

....oooh, I got in on this late...., no biggie, I woulda suggested NJ (nut job)...LOL...we got lots of them here in "NJ" too..... aye aye (I I)...
BTW Pete wrote an excellent post last night on the ZL1 side where all the I-I's were going off, a recommended read for all, well done Pete....

[Mr Twisty]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

If I were building the next generation Camaro I wouldn't be too worried about power. We know GM can make power in just about any engine configuration of displacement. I would focus on using the power just as they did on the ZL1. MRC and the associated electronics will play a key role.

As long as they design the dog house around a V8, so they can fit pretty much anything in the engine bay. If it's too much torque for the chassis, it'll give aftermarket suspension companies something to do

[ShnOmac]

I never really thought of "exotic" materials becoming main stream thus making them cheaper. Hmmmmm exciting times indeed.....

[LOWDOWN]

ShnOman, if you're gettin' excited about suspension systems, just wait till ya see what's coming for motor-vation...

What we think of, today, as ex-Zotic will be mundane in a few short years.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

ShnOman, if you're gettin' excited about suspension systems, just wait till ya see what's coming for motor-vation...

Strong motor's.... Exotic materials.... Insane technology...

[Number 3]

The unpacking has at least got to the point where I have my desktop operational. itunes and Camaor5.com, ahhhhhhhhhhhh

Originally Posted by JusticePete

#3, is there a difference in how VW and GM 'own' the China based production companies?

As I understand it, NO company is allowed own a controlling interest in China so you have to form a Joint Venture with a Chinese company.

GM has several and in some cases owns less than 50% but I believe counts the sale. One of GM's biggest JVs is SAIC (cars), the other is with Wuling (small vans and I believe they are building the Cruze). GM has been very adept at forming these relationships and JVs in China. The Wuling JV is providing very inexpensive trucks for SA and India. Of course I understand the Indian market doesn't much care for Chinese made products.

GM has also started a new brand in China, Boujun (translates into trusted horse if I remember correctly). Done again for China only with a JV.

Keep in mind, the China market is projected to nearly triple to 30 million units by 2020 or so.

China is passing many regulations on engine size, hybrid use and EVs.

Imagine what that will do to to price of oil and the impact that will have on the HP in our beloved Camaro.

Originally Posted by htron50

If I may chime in, Mac baited the hook, JP bit, and 3 will be here shortly to REEL you in!! (for what its worth)

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

It's been a while since we had a good technical discussion in here. I thought this would be a good thought provoking discussion!

It works better when everyone chimes in....

Mmmmmmmmmm Camaro technical discussion.

Here is the question:

If by 2020, China is sucking up all the oil (and hasn't tapped into their own) and gas is current Europe or higher prices per gallon, will you want a high HP Camaro or a wonderfully balanced Camaro?

You can do some wonderful things in a car with 300 to 400 HP.

Did anyone mention AWD? GTR cough, cough.

Weight will be more and more critical for FE as will Aerodynamics. We still haven't seen the impacts on car design for the new CAFE regulations.

Packaging efficiency will be critical as well. I remember a good friend of my fathers stating prophetically during the fuel crunch in the early 70's (yikes that was a while ago), "Americans will not tolerate puting their family in a car the size of a refrigerator and driving them to Florida on vacation". America is vast and wonderful and personal transportation to simply go and do and see and be is part of our culture and heritage. So keep that in mind when we discuss future automotive trends.

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

....oooh, I got in on this late...., no biggie, I woulda suggested NJ (nut job)...LOL...we got lots of them here in "NJ" too..... aye aye (I I)...
BTW Pete wrote an excellent post last night on the ZL1 side where all the I-I's were going off, a recommended read for all, well done Pete....

I think we just call "Jersey", short for NJ and a reference as well to the Nut Jobs on the show Jersey Shore.

Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69

As long as they design the dog house around a V8, so they can fit pretty much anything in the engine bay. If it's too much torque for the chassis, it'll give aftermarket suspension companies something to do

How about a small displacement high reving V8, say 4.0 Liters?

Originally Posted by ShnOmac

I never really thought of "exotic" materials becoming main stream thus making them cheaper. Hmmmmm exciting times indeed.....

Unobtanium is becoming obtainable with more wide spread application. Aluminium is more widespread than ever. But some materials still take too long to process. Stamping steel or extruding aluminum are still fairly fast processes for making high volume parts. Puting Carbon Fiber in a kiln to cure for 30 minutes to an hour still makes for a very expensive part.

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by Number 3

will you want a high HP Camaro or a wonderfully balanced Camaro?

I think I am in the minority but I would prefer a wonderfully balanced Camaro.

Glad you are getting settled in 3!