Supercharger / Turbocharger Results (INFO) Thread

[Z_Rocks]

Originally Posted by Motown Machine

How practical are exhaust cutouts with a TT setup?

I'd say very practical, if there are placed close to the release of the turbos. As long as there is no back pressure on the release side, those turbos will spin freely and much quicker and response is much faster.

To me, the cutouts, specially the good ones like NoWeeds.net when connected to stock exhaust, you get the best of both worlds. In normal driving and cursing, it's quiet and no drone like you get from open exhaust and as soon as you want to have fun, click a switch and you get 3" open exhaust at your finger tips.

Just be sure the tune is made for it, sine you get the boost much earlier than stock and you should have fuel much earlier too.

[Granatelli]

Originally Posted by Motown Machine

How practical are exhaust cutouts with a TT setup?

Turbo are like mufflers anyway - exh cut outs would help marginally for performance

[Granatelli]

Originally Posted by Boostpatrol

torque is king when u have a camaro or G8 thats 4000 lbs. My old stock with dod l76 made 616whp at 5000 rpm and 649 wtq at 3700 rpm on 10 psi on pump gas. Cant beat that to get a tank rolling!!!! STS 60-1 twins....

Torque is ALWAYS KING

STS is nice but will always lag compared to the turbs mounted off the manifolds up front

[Silver2SSRS6spd]

Just had my 2010 LS3 dynotuned after installing a Maggie 2300 last week. I have the Maggie, K&N CAI and Stainless Works Cat-Back and registered 490tq and 513hp on a conservative tune. Running stock pulley on SC, the boost measured 8+ peak.

[Camaro21]

Here is the latest Dyno for my car.. TVS2300, Kooks Headers, Stage II Blower Cam, ADM Street Cold Air Intake, 3.70 Gears, Innovators West 8-Rib Pulley System with 3.4 Blower Pulley and ADM Custom Dyno Tune.

ADM Performance ROCKS !!

[calbert1999]

Decided. Going with the D-1SC procharger. Estimating I'll make very close to 660rwhp. and close to 550tq. with very moderate and safe 6psi. of boost.
Cleaner, easier install (don't have to remove stock intake or modify engine cover), air-to-air intercooled, reduced detonation, no meth needed and much easier on the engine than higher boost numbers to achieve the same goals.
Can always increase boost with upgraded internals, and Procharger has a great warranty @3yrs. and a fabulous upgrade program to go from the lower end P-1, to the D-1SC or even the F-1 series.
Will start with the Stage II, with D-1SC upgrade, 12rib. serpentine, and custom race valve, with the massive intercooler, and the ADM dual-pump fuel kit.
Seen the HO system P-1 on an SS @6psi. make 640rwhp / 550lbtq. with very moderate tune, very safe, no BAP, no fuel, no meth, no detonation and sounds amazing.
Can't beat those options.
Have to admit though the Maggie looks cool, and the turbos look cool'er with all the complicated tubing.

[Granatelli]

Congrats on your choice but complicated tubing of a turbo? Have you seen the plumbing that goes into an intercooled centrifugal? It is the same as any other turbo or centrifugal running air to air intercooling with forced induction.

Plus to make 660 at only 6psi you will have to add headers and a not so mild tune. 6 psi is a 40% increase of stock. Assuming 100% efficiency at stock motor with headers that makes 410 to the tires will make 590. I agree you can get to 660 but that will not be a mild tune - it will be good pump gas and aggressive timing. No question the procharger can make big power over the Magnuson but you give up on torque down low and that is what all the maggie guys keep holding on too. Why not it is a wonderful thing

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by Granatelli

Congrats on your choice but complicated tubing of a turbo? Have you seen the plumbing that goes into an intercooled centrifugal? It is the same as any other turbo or centrifugal running air to air intercooling with forced induction.

Plus to make 660 at only 6psi you will have to add headers and a not so mild tune. 6 psi is a 40% increase of stock. Assuming 100% efficiency at stock motor with headers that makes 410 to the tires will make 590. I agree you can get to 660 but that will not be a mild tune - it will be good pump gas and aggressive timing. No question the procharger can make big power over the Magnuson but you give up on torque down low and that is what all the maggie guys keep holding on too. Why not it is a wonderful thing

My decision is based on a setup I've already seen and the piping doesn't look complicated at all.
My installer has done quite a few Maggies, Turbos, Meth, NO and ProCharger too. So, I have to take their experiences into consideration as well. When making my decision the cool factor and power gains are always part of the process, however the best decision for my engine has to take precedence, I think the ProCharger is the safest, most powerfull way to go.
My understanding is to stay away from knock sensors as much as possible, and seems like ProCharger behave really well in that area. Might have something to do with the intercooling system.
There is an intake to the SC, and the boost flows to the intercooler, and from the intercooler to the TB, and a few other minor connections for run-off and cooling, and it's all in front of the the rad. Pretty simply to do except for removal of the front fender, but that needs to be done for any SC that has a cooling system anyway,
The part I'm concerned about most is all the work for the dual-pump system. Practically, taking the whole back end apart to get to the gas tank.
As for the rest I'm already setup with headers, exhaust and booster cam. So, making the 660rwhp. with about 500lbtq. low down should be enough. I haven't seen too many Maggie setups make much more than that down low without forged internals, and stroked engines. But, I do admit they do hold the TQ higher up. I guess there's always a bit of a trade off regardless of the system. But, if I wanted to I could always do like the maggie dudes, and increase the boost to 8-10psi., but I don't want to push it for a few extra lbs. of torque.

[SSE 4 2SS]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

My decision is based on a setup I've already seen and the piping doesn't look complicated at all.
My installer has done quite a few Maggies, Turbos, Meth, NO and ProCharger too. So, I have to take their experiences into consideration as well. When making my decision the cool factor and power gains are always part of the process, however the best decision for my engine has to take precedence, I think the ProCharger is the safest, most powerfull way to go.
My understanding is to stay away from knock sensors as much as possible, and seems like ProCharger behave really well in that area. Might have something to do with the intercooling system.
There is an intake to the SC, and the boost flows to the intercooler, and from the intercooler to the TB, and a few other minor connections for run-off and cooling, and it's all in front of the the rad. Pretty simply to do except for removal of the front fender, but that needs to be done for any SC that has a cooling system anyway,
The part I'm concerned about most is all the work for the dual-pump system. Practically, taking the whole back end apart to get to the gas tank.
As for the rest I'm already setup with headers, exhaust and booster cam. So, making the 660rwhp. with about 500lbtq. low down should be enough. I haven't seen too many Maggie setups make much more than that down low without forged internals, and stroked engines. But, I do admit they do hold the TQ higher up. I guess there's always a bit of a trade off regardless of the system. But, if I wanted to I could always do like the maggie dudes, and increase the boost to 8-10psi., but I don't want to push it for a few extra lbs. of torque.

Bro,

Sounds like you will end up with a mean car... A good friend of mine, Kyle, has a Procharger, and it is sic... He was the big dog in our area for a long time with at or just over 700 HP. He has a LSx 427 after he popped his LS-3...

I'm trying to topple him from the BIG DOG throne... lol, actually he is an awesome person and I have no issues with whom is the biggest or has the most power... I am fortunate that in this area, as this site shows in most parts of the continent, there are some amazing people involved with this car...

Good Luck with your build, and start a build thread for us to follow...

[Granatelli]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

My decision is based on a setup I've already seen and the piping doesn't look complicated at all.
My installer has done quite a few Maggies, Turbos, Meth, NO and ProCharger too. So, I have to take their experiences into consideration as well. When making my decision the cool factor and power gains are always part of the process, however the best decision for my engine has to take precedence, I think the ProCharger is the safest, most powerful way to go.
My understanding is to stay away from knock sensors as much as possible, and seems like ProCharger behave really well in that area. Might have something to do with the intercooling system.
There is an intake to the SC, and the boost flows to the intercooler, and from the intercooler to the TB, and a few other minor connections for run-off and cooling, and it's all in front of the the rad. Pretty simply to do except for removal of the front fender, but that needs to be done for any SC that has a cooling system anyway,
The part I'm concerned about most is all the work for the dual-pump system. Practically, taking the whole back end apart to get to the gas tank.
As for the rest I'm already setup with headers, exhaust and booster cam. So, making the 660rwhp. with about 500lbtq. Low down should be enough. I haven't seen too many Maggie setups make much more than that down low without forged internals, and stroked engines. But, I do admit they do hold the TQ higher up. I guess there's always a bit of a trade off regardless of the system. But, if I wanted to I could always do like the maggie dudes, and increase the boost to 8-10psi., but I don't want to push it for a few extra lbs. of torque.

Well…Complicated is a relative term. I re-read my post and it sound like I came off like a jerk. I did not mean to convey that tone so oops sorry. Now on to your comments

No question a centrifugal makes the least amount of power down low so for that reason – YES it I safe. However, the Procharger takes power off the crank and puts added stress on the nose of the crank – that is why they tell you to “pin” the nose of the crank pulley when doing the install. It stops the blower from ripping the pulley off the crank like unscrewing a nut from a bolt or reverse rotating a cap off a beer bottle. Also the Procharger will move a ton of air and make HUGE power in the latter part of the RPM range so caution should always be taken.

When you say the MOST POWERFULL?? - I mean a turbo will always make the most power per lb of boost - Hands down

As for Knock sensors and intercooling – the coolest air possible is always the best way to go but again Centrifugals are not better than turbos in that department either – that is based on the intercooler – So that would be a toss up.

There is no front fender removal required on the twin turbo install – at least not on any of the systems I have seen

As for torque – the Maggie will make way more down low and the Procharger will carry it higher


You made a great choice either way

[FireonIce]

Ok so it has taken me about two hours to read through this whole thread! With that being said there is a wealth of information to be had and great arguments for either side. My only problem is that since I purchased my car almost a year ago, I have had my heart set on a twin turbo set up. Specifically the Granatelli or the Hellion... But the only problem is that through the research I have done you cannot use either of these systems with long tube headers. I hope that I am correct with this. I want to have a cam package, long tube headers and a twin turbo set up. Specifically Stainless Works long tubes to match my exhaust system. Through my research the only twin turbo that will work with this is the STS system. I am not sold on this system due to location and it doesn't appear to offer the same amount of horse power as the other two systems mentioned. With this being said is there a way or package that will allow me to run long tube headers with the Granatelli or Hellion? If not am I going to be stuck with the super charger with the direction I am wanting to go with my car??? Any imput for you guys would be greatly appreciated!

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

Bro,

Sounds like you will end up with a mean car... A good friend of mine, Kyle, has a Procharger, and it is sic... He was the big dog in our area for a long time with at or just over 700 HP. He has a LSx 427 after he popped his LS-3...

I'm trying to topple him from the BIG DOG throne... lol, actually he is an awesome person and I have no issues with whom is the biggest or has the most power... I am fortunate that in this area, as this site shows in most parts of the continent, there are some amazing people involved with this car...

Good Luck with your build, and start a build thread for us to follow...

Thanks, man. I really want to start a build thread, but I only have bits and pieces of pics right now. Have to spend more time with my performance installer to get a good collection of pics that will show beginning to end.

Well, I guess I could lay out all the stock parts on the ground and take some pics of that stuff too. LOL

I agree; Really, cool car, everybody loves it and the more work I get done on it the more amazing it is to drive. Next step will be to take some driving lessons to re-learn how to drive this beast.

Originally Posted by Granatelli

Well…Complicated is a relative term. I re-read my post and it sound like I came off like a jerk. I did not mean to convey that tone so oops sorry. Now on to your comments

No question a centrifugal makes the least amount of power down low so for that reason – YES it I safe. However, the Procharger takes power off the crank and puts added stress on the nose of the crank – that is why they tell you to “pin” the nose of the crank pulley when doing the install. It stops the blower from ripping the pulley off the crank like unscrewing a nut from a bolt or reverse rotating a cap off a beer bottle. Also the Procharger will move a ton of air and make HUGE power in the latter part of the RPM range so caution should always be taken.

When you say the MOST POWERFULL?? - I mean a turbo will always make the most power per lb of boost - Hands down

As for Knock sensors and intercooling – the coolest air possible is always the best way to go but again Centrifugals are not better than turbos in that department either – that is based on the intercooler – So that would be a toss up.

There is no front fender removal required on the twin turbo install – at least not on any of the systems I have seen

As for torque – the Maggie will make way more down low and the Procharger will carry it higher

You made a great choice either way

No worries. I really appreciate vendor opinions, otherwise I wouldn't be able to make any educated decisions I have to trust my performance installer, my research, feedback I get from experienced folks like yourself, and throw in my goals to come up with what I believe is going to be the right choice for me.

If I had not done the work I've done to this point I may have gone with turbos, but I'd be at a huge loss at this point with my wicked MBRP exhaust, and headers. I really like those rear turbo setups where they replace the mufflers. That would have been my system of choice.

With a turbo setup. I would have done 3" straight pipe muffler delete, diverters (if possible), and those rear turbos. Overall probably would have saved a bunch of cash going that route.

In any case thanks for stepping up to the plate and providing expert advice, very much appreciated.

Originally Posted by GenetX

Ok so I completely just fried my mind reading all this info. I wanted a turbo system so bad but now I've narrowed it down to a SC but which one?

Twin-screw Superchargers or Centrifugal Superchargers any suggestions? Also which company is best between the both? So Fried I feel like a mustang that just got its but whooped by an SS

I'm with you 100%. My mind was made up; I thought I was giong to throw on a TVS2300 roots style SC just like everyone else, and then I read this article, did hours of research, and had numerous discussions with my performance installer.

All, I can say is this; If you want to have your tires spinning when the light turns greeen, and everyone else is gone ahead of you then get a roots, if you want really high HP gains and a even smooth stream of boost and power throughout the power band, get a centrifugal (ProCharger). With a ProCharger you won't need a meth kit, you won't need a light to tell you the meth is running out, you won't have to drill holes in your trunk for the meth tank, you won't have to run tubes from the trunk to the enging, you won't have to be concerned your meth pump is going to fry and leave you worrying about your engine detonating.

My installer built numerous Camaros' v8, M6's with the TVS2300, and meth (you'll need a meth kit for safety reasons), and barely make 570-580rwhp. @ 8 - 9psi. of boost, and knock sensors had to constantly adjust timing to compensate for the high temps (this can cause detonation). And then to see un-biased results of the centri system, they installed the older, smaller, ProCharger P-1SC-1 HO, and smaller air-to-air intercooler system on the same vehicle and got a whopping 640rwhp. @ 6psi. of boost (no meth required due to the air-to-air, intercooler), no knock sensors adjusting timing. This was done in the same environment, using same fans, same env. temps, same dyno.

So, what do you think my decision is now? Sorry ol'skool roots kit. No TVS2300 for me, no meth., no knock sensor BS, no heavy SC, no 1:1 ratio cog belt to make it sound decent, no un-necessary tires spinning burnnig up my Pirellis, no concerns my engine is going to blow when I run out of meth. on a vacation geteaway. ProCharger D-1SC Stage II, here I come. Wooo..... hooo......

[midgard]

With 810 hp and the roots style Maggie.....I blew every car off the line....not sure why others have their tires spinning....the key is having a good tire, and a good tune.......Procharger vs Maggie or KB....its not even remotely close....its not the Procharger.

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by midgard

With 810 hp and the roots style Maggie.....I blew every car off the line....not sure why others have their tires spinning....the key is having a good tire, and a good tune.......Procharger vs Maggie or KB....its not even remotely close....its not the Procharger.

I'm sure you do. But, it's not only the Maggie that's winning the races. I would guess it's the overall design of the vehicle and the driver. Regardless, not hearing too much buzz about records by vehicles with Maggies, ProCharger must be doing something right. Dontcha' think?