Portfolio for those wanting to file under Lemon Law - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

evlar · 06-29-2012, 10:30 AM

I've been reading the threads on here a lot regarding the tops. There are those that are happy and those that are dealing with really tough issues on their tops. It appears that GM is adjusting their strategy toward a "not to replace" any tops unless they absolutely have to or if they lose a BBB claim. SO...

I would ask that those of you who have gone through this, please provide a list of evidence that those who want to file can easilty put this together as a package to take to the hearing. I'm imagine it would be something like this:

1. list of service visits to dealers and time in the shop
2. Account of any discussions and requests you've made to the dealer
3. Any correspondence and requests you've made to GM cust satisfaction and their unresponsiveness in fixing the issue.
4. ALL pictures of the problems over a period of time and how they've gotten worse as the mileage has increased.
5. An explanation of the defective design
6. Any numbers we have on here regarding those with problems
7. Number of claims to BBB on these cars (if it can be tracked)
8. All video and written statements from GM engineers that make longevity and quality assurances on these tops.

So... who can help expand on this? We need to have a simple, straightforward package of proof for those who want to go this route. This process should not have to be difficult for those who are at wits end on this. Let's try and help one another out and get organized.

Drago77 · 06-29-2012, 01:20 PM

It's interesting to see the different responses people on here have been getting regarding the BBB complaints... my situation appears to have taken a potential turn for the worst, but we'll see what happens next week.

As for the BBB- they simply requested copies of the work orders showing the issues and dates of service. I reached a "tenative" resolve with GM prior to an arbitration, so no further documentation was requested of me. I did meet with a GM Rep (I was under the impression it would be an engineering tech, however it was a regional service rep...) he examined the car with myself and the service manager and we came up with our current plan of action. I did come to the meeting armed with numerous print-outs and a clear understanding of what is causing the problem. If not resolved soon, I will be re-opening with the BBB...

evlar · 06-30-2012, 03:20 AM

Thanks for the update, Kev. Is GM giving you a hard time because of your mods? Please keep us posted.

Juan S. V.-L. Ramirez · 06-30-2012, 06:34 AM

anyone ever seen this?

http://files.homepagemodules.de/b178...5p187954n2.pdf

http://files.homepagemodules.de/b178...5p187954n3.pdf

dcfan22 · 06-30-2012, 07:13 AM

Interesting postings - Nice to know they knew about the issues right away but pretended not too. Also I wonder what percentage of cars had the water bag inspection prior to selling the vehicle. I would guess very low and this is why the water bags failed on some cars.

Thanks! Keep them coming if you have more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juan S. V.-L. Ramirez

anyone ever seen this?

http://files.homepagemodules.de/b178...5p187954n2.pdf

http://files.homepagemodules.de/b178...5p187954n3.pdf

BDH · 06-30-2012, 08:54 AM

Interesting...thank you for posting Juan.

evlar · 06-30-2012, 09:31 AM

Juan- I saw the first one, but never the second.

Everyone planning on a Lemon claim should have these TSB's with them to show the multiple known issues with these tops in the first year.

95birdible · 06-30-2012, 01:08 PM

First year, the water bag was the second month.

evlar · 07-01-2012, 06:38 PM

Bump. I thought this thread would get more discussion going given all the unhappy vert owners with serious issues. Perhaps I was wrong

Michael Rophone · 07-01-2012, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evlar

Bump. I thought this thread would get more discussion going given all the unhappy vert owners with serious issues. Perhaps I was wrong

We're basically lazy. We're basically sheep. Lazy sheep.
We put up with problems and/or inferior products.
It's why this country is no longer a manufacturing Nation.

Personally, I'm impatient...I'd rather trade a lemon in than jump through a long, long line of hoops.
I'm probably just the kind of customer GM likes:
"Don't rock the boat (while it's taking on water from the Camarostomy Bag)."

Wait... no, this isn't funny.

Drago77 · 07-01-2012, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evlar

Thanks for the update, Kev. Is GM giving you a hard time because of your mods? Please keep us posted.

That was my downfall...GM seemed to be "reeling" at first w my BBB complaint; UNTIL they realized the amount of $$$ I had invested in non-GM installed/authorized mods. At that time, the attitude completely changed from "we'll find a way to fix this" to " oh, we'll just buy the car back" knowing full well I'd take a tremendous loss. I even called the GM rep out about her "threats" and was immediately transfered to (the voicemail of) her supervisor.

They've got us bent over pretty well...I'm lucky my selling dealership, although 100+ miles away, is willing to help me. Getting a little worried now, as the deadline has come and gone last week, but its my last hope.

...if GM screws me; I'm not doing a buy back, I'll trade it in on a Mustang. Congrats GM... way to drive your own customers away

babytiger · 07-01-2012, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juan S. V.-L. Ramirez

anyone ever seen this?

http://files.homepagemodules.de/b178...5p187954n2.pdf

http://files.homepagemodules.de/b178...5p187954n3.pdf

Having just bought our NEW '11 vert, I went and looked at the top in the specific areas shown on the two files above. And both issues have been addressed exactly like in the pics. I assumed with the car sitting on the lot through all these bulletins/TSBs the issues would be addressed as GM released the new info. And it appears so. So far no issues.

I apologize for posting in the wrong section

Had12Many · 08-21-2012, 02:23 PM

Thanks for the good ammunition.

I'm just getting underway in filing my BBB complaint. My vert (purchased in 6/2011) is on it's 3rd top for wear issues, but more importantly, leak issues (most likely due to the faulty bladder). I've had a leak in the trunk first, then a leak on the back passenger's side floorboard. But more than the build quality, I've gotten terrible service from my local dealership. On my most recent "adventure" with them, they had my car from 7/24/2012 to 8/11, and the only update I got from them (without filing a GM complaint) was on 7/27/2012, when they told me the top was replaced and they were waiting for the "leak detectors" to come out and look at the car. I finally got an "update" on 8/6/2012 when they told me the top was fixed, and there were no leaks, but they would have to order new carpet to put in the vehicle (was ruined by the leak), and that they had no timetable on the new carpet! I finally just went and picked up the car on 8/11, then had to take it right back on 8/13 as the weatherstripping on the driver's rear quarter window was pulled away from the top frame and the window would not roll up! They took another week to fix that, and I went and picked up the car on 8/17, but I am still waiting on the carpet. The kicker? They gouched the crap out of the panel that the top sits on over the windshield, and put a dent in the rear driver's fender. Awesome. Almost as great a combination as peanut butter and jelly.

This car has been in the shop for a total of 33 days because of this stupid top, and counting, once the carpet and top panel come in...

(Sorry for ranting, and my apologies if I posted in the wrong thread!)

Fnfalguy · 08-21-2012, 09:26 PM

I should get my car back in the next few days so I'm hoping that they've been able to fix the new roof this time. However, I've had my car at the dealership 3 times thus far for the convertible roof and as of this week, they've had my car a total of 5 weeks since I bought it in March.

06-29-2012, 10:30 AM	#1
evlar Drives: 2011 (L99) 2SS/RS vert Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Port St. Lucie, FL Posts: 200 View My Garage	Portfolio for those wanting to file under Lemon Law I've been reading the threads on here a lot regarding the tops. There are those that are happy and those that are dealing with really tough issues on their tops. It appears that GM is adjusting their strategy toward a "not to replace" any tops unless they absolutely have to or if they lose a BBB claim. SO... I would ask that those of you who have gone through this, please provide a list of evidence that those who want to file can easilty put this together as a package to take to the hearing. I'm imagine it would be something like this: 1. list of service visits to dealers and time in the shop 2. Account of any discussions and requests you've made to the dealer 3. Any correspondence and requests you've made to GM cust satisfaction and their unresponsiveness in fixing the issue. 4. ALL pictures of the problems over a period of time and how they've gotten worse as the mileage has increased. 5. An explanation of the defective design 6. Any numbers we have on here regarding those with problems 7. Number of claims to BBB on these cars (if it can be tracked) 8. All video and written statements from GM engineers that make longevity and quality assurances on these tops. So... who can help expand on this? We need to have a simple, straightforward package of proof for those who want to go this route. This process should not have to be difficult for those who are at wits end on this. Let's try and help one another out and get organized.

06-29-2012, 01:20 PM	#2
Drago77 Treasure Coast Camaro 5 Drives: 19 2SS vert, Mosaic Blk, A10 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Stuart, Florida Posts: 4,565 View My Garage	It's interesting to see the different responses people on here have been getting regarding the BBB complaints... my situation appears to have taken a potential turn for the worst, but we'll see what happens next week. As for the BBB- they simply requested copies of the work orders showing the issues and dates of service. I reached a "tenative" resolve with GM prior to an arbitration, so no further documentation was requested of me. I did meet with a GM Rep (I was under the impression it would be an engineering tech, however it was a regional service rep...) he examined the car with myself and the service manager and we came up with our current plan of action. I did come to the meeting armed with numerous print-outs and a clear understanding of what is causing the problem. If not resolved soon, I will be re-opening with the BBB... __________________ My build:http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132722 http://www.treasurecoastcamaro5.com

06-30-2012, 01:08 PM	#8
95birdible Drives: 2012 1SS Camaro Convertible Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Blaine, MN Posts: 1,674	First year, the water bag was the second month. __________________ 2012 1SS Crystal Red Convertible "Cherry Bomb" Winner of the #NameThatCamaro Spring Special Edition "Green Flash"

06-30-2012, 03:20 AM	#3
evlar Drives: 2011 (L99) 2SS/RS vert Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Port St. Lucie, FL Posts: 200 View My Garage	Thanks for the update, Kev. Is GM giving you a hard time because of your mods? Please keep us posted.

06-30-2012, 06:34 AM	#4
Juan S. V.-L. Ramirez Drives: camaro, 300c hemi, z4 35i, insignia Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: europe Posts: 37	anyone ever seen this? http://files.homepagemodules.de/b178...5p187954n2.pdf http://files.homepagemodules.de/b178...5p187954n3.pdf

06-30-2012, 08:54 AM	#6
BDH Drives: 2012 1LT-RS Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: CA Posts: 256	Interesting...thank you for posting Juan.

06-30-2012, 09:31 AM	#7
evlar Drives: 2011 (L99) 2SS/RS vert Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Port St. Lucie, FL Posts: 200 View My Garage	Juan- I saw the first one, but never the second. Everyone planning on a Lemon claim should have these TSB's with them to show the multiple known issues with these tops in the first year.

07-01-2012, 06:38 PM	#9
evlar Drives: 2011 (L99) 2SS/RS vert Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Port St. Lucie, FL Posts: 200 View My Garage	Bump. I thought this thread would get more discussion going given all the unhappy vert owners with serious issues. Perhaps I was wrong

08-21-2012, 02:23 PM	#13
Had12Many Drives: 2011 Camaro Convertible 1LT Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Orlando, Fl Posts: 5	Thanks for the good ammunition. I'm just getting underway in filing my BBB complaint. My vert (purchased in 6/2011) is on it's 3rd top for wear issues, but more importantly, leak issues (most likely due to the faulty bladder). I've had a leak in the trunk first, then a leak on the back passenger's side floorboard. But more than the build quality, I've gotten terrible service from my local dealership. On my most recent "adventure" with them, they had my car from 7/24/2012 to 8/11, and the only update I got from them (without filing a GM complaint) was on 7/27/2012, when they told me the top was replaced and they were waiting for the "leak detectors" to come out and look at the car. I finally got an "update" on 8/6/2012 when they told me the top was fixed, and there were no leaks, but they would have to order new carpet to put in the vehicle (was ruined by the leak), and that they had no timetable on the new carpet! I finally just went and picked up the car on 8/11, then had to take it right back on 8/13 as the weatherstripping on the driver's rear quarter window was pulled away from the top frame and the window would not roll up! They took another week to fix that, and I went and picked up the car on 8/17, but I am still waiting on the carpet. The kicker? They gouched the crap out of the panel that the top sits on over the windshield, and put a dent in the rear driver's fender. Awesome. Almost as great a combination as peanut butter and jelly. This car has been in the shop for a total of 33 days because of this stupid top, and counting, once the carpet and top panel come in... (Sorry for ranting, and my apologies if I posted in the wrong thread!)

08-21-2012, 09:26 PM	#14
Fnfalguy Supreme Advisor Drives: 2011 Camaro SS Convertible Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Central Florida Posts: 258 View My Garage	I should get my car back in the next few days so I'm hoping that they've been able to fix the new roof this time. However, I've had my car at the dealership 3 times thus far for the convertible roof and as of this week, they've had my car a total of 5 weeks since I bought it in March.