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Old 10-25-2015, 09:05 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by AG1LE View Post
Yep

The mini side grilles direct air to the outside edge of the wheel well just in front of the front tire (I also posted a picture of this) to help push around the wheel well and reduce drag.
The new Mustang and the aluminum F150 have these, they call them air curtains
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Old 10-25-2015, 09:06 PM   #254
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The OEs are really sweating the details. What a great time to be a car guy!
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Old 10-26-2015, 03:48 AM   #255
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GM, particularly the Camaro TEAM, have strict guidelines in place regarding intellectual property. IF a GM engineer were to mention something about a GM project to me, it would certainly not appear on Camaro5. It is my understanding that disclosing such information could cost an engineer their job. I will not comment or reply to your post or posts by anyone that cover any form of information from GM not in the public domain. Just as I choose how to handle my professional relationships, you are free to to leverage your working relationships in any way you see
I am well aware of how it works with the OEs and even more aware of your "relationship" with GM than you think. The difference is that I am just an enthusiast looking for real data that I can use on the track to reduce lap times and have nothing to sell, market or hype.

Back to my question, and I can be more specific. What data do you have to support the choice of location of the ducts besides a money back guarantee? And with that, how does this duct placement effect vehicle dynamics? The concern is anytime you redirect air around or in this case through the front fascia there is a direct correlation to vehicle stability, down force, lift Etc.

This is a similar question I asked the suppliers of the a-la-Z/28 style wing extensions that are selling them for the 10-13 spoiler. What are they doing for the front to offset the added down force in the rear of a car that already has lift at speed. These questions often go unanswered as they are either not considered, not understood or ignored so they can continue making money on claims of performance and reduced lap times.

You have been more than generous and supportive to the Camaro community here over the years, but I prefer to see data over claims of improvement with money back guarantees.
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Old 10-26-2015, 08:11 AM   #256
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Matt,

I fully understand your request for data. There is a balance between providing quality information to enthusiasts like you on Camaro5 and educating my competitors in the market place. Before there was a 5th Gen Camaro delivered to a Chevrolet dealer through the present we have been on this forum showing and telling what we do. We are as close to an open book as possible. For the most part, it has worked to the benefit of the community and for business.

We do collect in depth data using a Race Technology system. Some of what we gather with the RT equipment we make public. Other data collection is done creatively. Measuring under hood temperatures with a variety of hoods was accomplished creatively and on a budget using a an oven thermometer with a wired probe.

We have been tracking brake caliper and tire temperatures on the 5th Gen since 2009. We have a fairly good data base on many critical data points. Some we make public and some we don't. Our aero work was not something I particularly wanted to take on. It was and is out of our comfort zone. That didn't matter to one of our clients who wanted us to do something for him. After close to a year, we said w would try.

There is a particular high speed stretch with a little kink and three undulations we run between 145 and 155. The stretch unsettles the 5th Gen and by the last one in rapid succession has the steering so light your knuckles get white and about half the time the TC/SC kicks in. We ran a popular aftermarket piece in this test section. It felt no different. We made a larger front blade and felt a very slight difference. We revised the shape to be more square like a Z/28 and felt an improvement. With each increase in the front blade we increased the rear blade. We went wider and larger one more time and knew we had it right when we could blast through the stretch without white knuckles and no SC/TC action. That we threw a few sparks from the exhaust was just a plus. I have taken our aero to speeds in excess of 170 MPH and it feels good. It has been off course and survived. We make no claims other than what has been stated.

I am well aware that our testing does no come close to OE standards. That is why we have always been such staunch supporters of using as many OE parts as possible. The engineering behind them is awesome. Our market niche has been and will continue to be to provide the things that for a variety of reasons the OE guys cannot. With each generation of product that becomes harder to do. We will raise our game to meet the needs and demands of the enthusiast market we serve.

There are times I wish I were smarter or more educated or had more resources and then I remember that what I enjoy most about the work is working with the people we do. We are fortunate to have a phenomenal group of industry experts that take an interest in our work and are phenomenal resources. There is no better feeling than having an engineer from a big manufacturer or top flight race team take the time to call or write an email that compliments your work or makes a suggestion for a refinement. Seeing something you have done show up in a production vehicle comes as a very close 1a, but it isn't as personal and they always forget to send the royalty checks. We may not like to admit it, but on some level we all appreciate validation.

Our brake ducts are not yet for sale. You know this is coming, we will be done with a version ready to release for retail sale... SOON. They will not be released until we have validated them to the best of our ability and know based on the data we collect and our testing that they do what we say they do and they will be backed by our money back guarantee.

To your question regarding placement, air flow, lift, etc.. I found these photos to be interesting.





TEAM Camaro is using in similar space, design elements that are familiar. I had not studied these elements in photos or in person, but find them interesting. The fascia we show is sitting on a V3 blade and will be fit with a set of our front fender canards. We do not expect any issues and do expect great cooling. We'll adjust the design to optimize function to the best of our ability and when it does go on sale it will do what we say it does.

These are hard core parts, made for hard core enthusiasts in a very small niche market. That means we won't sell many of these kits or our V3 kits. They are limited production and much of the work is done by hand. They are expensive because there is no volume. They are here because we have a handful of clients that need more than is currently available. The final say will come from my clients and the few enthusiasts that buy them. If they don't do what we say they do, you'll be reading about it here and I'll be processing refunds.

Edison didn't fail 2,000 time making a light bulb, he found 2,000 ways not to make a light bulb. Had he listened to Tesla he wouldn't have needed 2,000 attempts, but that is a different story. The bottom line is what we do works. It works because we don't follow the rules and we try things others wouldn't consider. We frequently fail with our initial designs because we don't follow the rules and we try things others wouldn't consider. That is when we are at our best. We figure out how to make it work. If I were a betting man, I wouldn't bet against the JPSS brake ducts working and being sold as a retail product.
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Old 08-16-2017, 08:28 AM   #257
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bump for updates?

Considering doing something with flexible ducting to the disc/caliper on my Z/28. Not because the brakes aren't already awesome but because it might prolong disc/pad life...?
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