Happy with E85 not 93

[Ds98formula]

Long thread bear with me lol. So first off this is not a bash thread. However I am not happy with my numbers on 93 octane and would like some opinions.

Car started off CIA intake,Kooks headers with high flow cats, Borla Atak and dyno tune. Car made 567whp/541 tq



Fast forward two years and I wanted more. Had the following installed

2.55 pulley
ID1050 injectors
Aux pump
Flex fuel sensor
Ic brick reinforced
Tuned at the same shop for both 93 octane and e85

So here is where I am not happy. My number on 93 with pulley were better than with out pulley under 5200 rpms. After that they where worse. I was expecting to pick up at least 35 whp up top.

Below is graph of 93 tune pulley vs no pulley. Blue line is after pulley. This was done by same tuner and same dyno. I was told by the shop that they had to dial timing back due to the extra boost. Now I know that happens but shouldn’t I still make more power up top with more boost? I just picked it up last night and it had a full tank of E85 and runs amazing on the E85 so I have not actually drove it on the 93 tune.




Below is my E85 graph witch I am happy with.



I am very happy with how the E85 performs. I have a dragy and before I dropped it off I did some test 40-100 all third gear,60-100 all third gear, 60-120 3rd and 4th gear and 60-130 2-4th gear.

My best 60-100 pre E85 was 4.32 my first two after were 3.81 and 3.85 pretty good drop in time for such a small window. So I know that tune is putting down power. I will get my 60-130 time either today or tomorrow to compare those.

I am hopefully that the 93 tune still performs good I am just a little worried about them seeming to be ok that I pulled down and lost power on 93. Like I said not a bash thread just looking for opinions

[JB'sZL1]

A cam will correct that and make you pull through 6k on 93.

[Blownfogger540]

you need more octane to run gas or like the tuner did had to back off the timing means less HP
add a meth injection system or just run e85 if you have it

[Ds98formula]

Originally Posted by Blownfogger540

you need more octane to run gas or like the tuner did had to back off the timing means less HP
add a meth injection system or just run e85 if you have it

Yeah I have plenty of E85 around. So I am just going to run that. I get the timing thing but lots of people made more power adding boost I thought my set up was pretty tame. If I knew it was going to force me to use E85 all the time I would have went with a more aggressive pulley lol

[12oclockshadow]

Wonder if you had some bad 93 gas in the car. Either way put a cam in there and it will make significantly more. I went from 690 to 801whp just adding a cam and 8.6 lower on the car. You can be alot more aggressive on E85. I have e85 gas few miles from me so it's a no brainer to run it.

[Ds98formula]

Originally Posted by 12oclockshadow

Wonder if you had some bad 93 gas in the car. Either way put a cam in there and it will make significantly more. I went from 690 to 801whp just adding a cam and 8.6 lower on the car. You can be alot more aggressive on E85. I have e85 gas few miles from me so it's a no brainer to run it.

Didn’t even think of bad gas. That’s a possibility. I use the same gas station every time but that don’t mean they didn’t get bad gas.

Cam may come eventually I am enjoying the stock manners of the car and not having to worry about springs and lifters

[RobZL1]

I'm with you. It should have made more with 17% overdrive. Heat and cylinder pressures should not have been a concern at that level.

When my car had intake, headers, id850s, JMS bap, and 28% overdrive it put down 630 SAE on a dynojet.

Maybe air in your intercooler loop since you had the brick out. I don't see a reservoir listed in your mods, and it's hard to bleed these things properly without one. Iat2 would go up, and hurt you on 93, but you could get away with throwing timing at it with ethanol.

[Ds98formula]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

I'm with you. It should have made more with 17% overdrive. Heat and cylinder pressures should not have been a concern at that level.

When my car had intake, headers, id850s, JMS bap, and 28% overdrive it put down 630 SAE on a dynojet.

Maybe air in your intercooler loop since you had the brick out. I don't see a reservoir listed in your mods, and it's hard to bleed these things properly without one. Iat2 would go up, and hurt you on 93, but you could get away with throwing timing at it with ethanol.

Got on it pretty hard for the 50 mile trip home. Iat2 Never went above 70. It was 55 out. I will keep an eye on it to see if the temps get high. I asked about temps and they said it was fine. They didn’t seem worried about it not making more on 93 is what confuses me. I have half tank of E85 left. I will put 93 in it and see how it does.

[RobZL1]

Originally Posted by Ds98formula

Got on it pretty hard for the 50 mile trip home. Iat2 Never went above 70. It was 55 out. I will keep an eye on it to see if the temps get high. I asked about temps and they said it was fine. They didn’t seem worried about it not making more on 93 is what confuses me. I have half tank of E85 left. I will put 93 in it and see how it does.

Hmm. If you got on it hard with the stock intercooler and HEX system, iat2 should have definitely gotten higher than 15 degrees above ambient with a 2.55 pulley. If you did a full pull in 3rd or a partial in 4th, it should jump higher than that.

[Ds98formula]

I will try again today and make sure to note how much it jumps. I was going 60mph or more the whole time

[Robmnrd]

I'm gonna play devil's advocate and say your pre-pulley 93 dyno was a happy dyno. Even if it was the same dyno and tuner, one lil number being slightly off in how they have it adjusted that day can make a significant difference in the graph and numbers it showed...

Any track times for your pre-pulley dyno? Specifically your mph.

I would expect an M6 car with CAI, exhaust and dyno tune to make ~520whp on 93, which would make your post-pulley numbers (with a non-aggressive 2.55) make a lot more sense.

Edit: Evidence to support my theory can be found all throughout the 'official dyno thread' where the very basic bolton cars (depending on auto/m6, specific parts/mods, and tuned vs non-tuned) tend to make ~475 (very low end for A6 cars) up to about 530 (very high end M6 cars). Additionally, my own A6 with CAI, kooks LTs w/hi-flow cats and open flap NPP dyno tuned up at a hair over 500whp. M6 would have a been a little more, right in line with projected numbers. 567 just seems way outside this range.

[RobZL1]

But it's the same dyno, and it's a dynojet. You don't calibrate a dynojet in the software. Plus it did pick up power below 4750. It just fell off above there. Shouldn't have done that- should have kept climbing and posted higher peak. I still think something is causing advance to fall off. Remains to be seen.

[Ds98formula]

Originally Posted by Robmnrd

I'm gonna play devil's advocate and say your pre-pulley 93 dyno was a happy dyno. Even if it was the same dyno and tuner, one lil number being slightly off in how they have it adjusted that day can make a significant difference in the graph and numbers it showed...

Any track times for your pre-pulley dyno? Specifically your mph.

I would expect an M6 car with CAI, exhaust and dyno tune to make ~520whp on 93, which would make your post-pulley numbers (with a non-aggressive 2.55) make a lot more sense.

Edit: Evidence to support my theory can be found all throughout the 'official dyno thread' where the very basic bolton cars (depending on auto/m6, specific parts/mods, and tuned vs non-tuned) tend to make ~475 (very low end for A6 cars) up to about 530 (very high end M6 cars). Additionally, my own A6 with CAI, kooks LTs w/hi-flow cats and open flap NPP dyno tuned up at a hair over 500whp. M6 would have a been a little more, right in line with projected numbers. 567 just seems way outside this range.

I am hoping that is what is going on. I could see my pre pulley numbers being a bit too high. I have just seen a lot of combos like mine make 580-600 on 93 octane.

My gain for E85 is what I was expecting. Just lower base then I expected.

I don’t have track numbers pre pulley but I do have several dragy numbers. Including 60-130mph 40-100 using only third gear 60-100 only 3rd gear. So I will retest those and see if it gained any. I just have to use all the e85 in the tank first. I was going to do it yesterday but refilled with e85 to take my buddy for a ride.

Edit: also another member on here has same combo, same tuner, same dyno put down 600 on 93. So it just confuses me they seem to think my numbers were ok. Meaning they where ok losing power and even told me it was due to timing. Now if they told me my first number where too high or that they had recalibrated the dyno I would be 100percent on board. But he explained it like he was not surprised I added a pulley and lost power. He said my 93 tune pre pulley was optimized and after the pulley they could not optimize it on 93

[Ds98formula]

Originally Posted by RobZL1

But it's the same dyno, and it's a dynojet. You don't calibrate a dynojet in the software. Plus it did pick up power below 4750. It just fell off above there. Shouldn't have done that- should have kept climbing and posted higher peak. I still think something is causing advance to fall off. Remains to be seen.

I agree. Will have to test the dragy numbers and log the temps.