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Old 06-16-2010, 11:56 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hot_rod View Post
>>>Sadly China will probably be where all the great developments will occur this century.

You are safe in removing the "probably" out of the above statement.

Playing with the China numbers / statistics provides some insight to your world

for example....

The 25% of the population in China with the highest IQs ....
is greater than the total population of North America.

Translation for teachers:they have more honors kids than we have kids.

China will soon become the number one English-speaking country in the world.

If you took every single job in the U.S. today and shipped it to China . . .
it still would have a labor surplus.

Name this country . . .
Richest in the world
Largest military
Center of world business and finance
Strongest education system
World center of innovation and invention
Currency the world standard of value
Highest standard of living

England
in 1900

Nintendo invested more than $140 million in research and development in 2002 alone.
The U.S. federal government spent less than half as much on research and innovation in education.
The number of text messages sent and received every day exceeds the population of the planet.

The world if flat, welcome to the 21st century....
Are you implying we should become more like China?
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Old 06-17-2010, 08:30 AM   #44
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Are you implying we should become more like China?
No, perhaps the opposite, they are becoming more like us and maybe "doing it" better?

The purpose of showing the statistics is to illustrate they don't have to be "better", they can beat us by the shear numbers.

I share many of the views and concerns expressed in the OP and subsequent post. IMO, our country is in decline or at best, not improving at the rate it should/could.

The reference to the flat world is drawing from Thomas Freidman's book by that name. He was one of the first to write about this decline and put forth the how's and why's of the global economy we are now in.

Freidman identified what he called 10 "flattners" one of which was "Outsourcing" and he wrote a lot about China , (some of his writing on China):

China’s real long-term strategy is to outrace American and the E.U. countries to the top, and the Chinese are off to a good start. China’s leaders are much more focused than many of their Western counterparts on how to train their young people in the math, science, and computer skills required for success in the flat worlds, how to build a physical and telecom infrastructure that will allow Chinese people to plug and play faster and easier than others, and how to create incentives that will attract global investors. What China’s leaders really want is the next generation of underwear or airplane wings to
be designed in China as well. That is where things are heading in another decade. So in thirty years we will have gone from “sold in China” to “made in China” to “designed in China” to “dreamed up in China” – or from China as collaborator with the worldwide manufactured on nothing to China as a low cost, high quality, hyper efficient collaborator with worldwide manufacturers on everything. This should allow China to maintain its role as a major flattening force, provided that political instability does not disrupt the
process.


The OP mentioned the one area that we may still lead in, Medical Equipment Technology. My last manufacturing job was with the world's largest medical equipment manufacture. One of my last projects was moving several product line's manufacturing operation to Juarez and Brazil. We could have automated much of the manufacturing operation and kept some of the jobs in the states but, we couldn't cost justify the capital money. When you compare the cost of the capital to automate to the cost of labor (~$2.00 hr) in these locations, it was cheaper to move it there and leave it manual.

"NASA nominally there" ya, very sad, it will be below nominal in a year when the shuttle program ends later this year.

Education of our young people is critical for our future and unfortunately the picture doesn't look to good there either. I now work in higher education and one of the items that hit the news in the last week or two was about incoming freshman's readiness for college. In summary ~40% of these students entering a 4 year university need remedial education in English and Math. The numbers get even worse, ~70%, for community colleges. Clearly our public education system is failing. The question is where is the leadership to fix it?

OK, long post and perhaps like the original OP, I should apologize for my rant.

Last edited by hot_rod; 06-17-2010 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:19 AM   #45
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I think people fail to realize that history repeats itself. Eventually some other country will become a super power and we'll fade into 2nd or "co-superpower". It happened to the Egyptians, Romans, the Greeks, the Persians, English, Germans, French, Russian etc. etc. and it will eventually happen to us. Someone will always come along and do something better. Just look 100 years ago England was the Super power, then it was us, and probably this century it will be the Chinese, then it will be someone else. You can only stay on the top for so long, and as history shows us nothing last forever.

Plus, since this is dealing mostly with innovation most of the stuff now isn't being done by one country of scientist. Fermilab, Cern, etc all have scientist from different areas. Many scientist today are grouping together and working on problems. 100 years ago you had a lot of "basement" scientist like Bell, Edison and Franklin. These guys worked by themselves, however they made the technology we used today that makes it easier for many scientist who would normally be basement scientist to work together and produce something.
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Old 06-17-2010, 09:28 AM   #46
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Thanks for the constructive conversation..

Please forgive the reminder to not get personal or disrespectful.

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Old 06-17-2010, 10:44 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hot_rod View Post
No, perhaps the opposite, they are becoming more like us and maybe "doing it" better?

The purpose of showing the statistics is to illustrate they don't have to be "better", they can beat us by the shear numbers.
Soooo you're saying we need to start having more kids then, got it really though, like Havok said, we won't be on top forever. I just hope China's people can eventually put a stop to the censorship it's government imposes. Cuz if they are going to be the next super power, I really don't want that example becoming a standard for other countries.
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Old 06-17-2010, 10:57 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Brokinarrow View Post
Soooo you're saying we need to start having more kids then, got it really though, like Havok said, we won't be on top forever. I just hope China's people can eventually put a stop to the censorship it's government imposes. Cuz if they are going to be the next super power, I really don't want that example becoming a standard for other countries.
Censorship is just the beginning of what they need to change. One of the most prevelant impressions I have come away with after traveling to some of these third world countries is how 'cheaply' they view life. Maybe when there's a few billion of ya, it's easier to do.

We have the modern "luxury" of spending a lot of time in the pursuit of happiness. In other parts of the world, the majority of effort is spent trying to survive.
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Old 06-17-2010, 11:52 AM   #49
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As a Canadian I read through this whole thing and found it all very interesting. I should say first off, I have visited many places in the US and enjoyed myself thoroughly every time, and plan to visit more in the future. I've met nothing but great people every time as well.

I have to say that as an outsider looking in, there are some American sterotypes being perpetuated here, but I guess all sterotypes have some root of truth. Lord knows I love hockey, and say "eh" more often than I care to admit. I echo alot of the sentiments shared here about my own country.

The "center of the universe" attitude is what most people think of when they think of the USA these days. I can't say I see it reflected in the people I've met, but you do see it in places like this from time to time. Statements like "the USA used to be THE worlds cultural melting pot" reflect it. It's more accurate to say "the USA used to be (and still is) ONE OF the worlds cultural melting pots". Canada has HUGE immigration numbers, as well as the UK, Australia, France, Spain, and others. I've met many people who have described to me growing up dreaming of coming to Canada and starting a new life, just as people do it for the USA.

I'm not trying to start an argument, you believe what you believe, I'm just stating a perception from another angle.

Can I just offer this for food for thought? No Empire in the history of the world has survived completely. It's just the natural ebb and flow of the world.

Persians, Romans, Greeks, France, England, Germany, Spain, USSR, and the USA. All projected power accross the world at one point in history. (the persians controlled more than half of the globe at one point.) But everybody must come down. China and India are on the rise now, but in time, they'll come down as well. All we can do is try to prevent the fall all the way to the bottom. Investing in young minds is the best way to do that. Educate kids, teach them to shoot for the highest goal they can imagine, and give them the tools to get there.

“Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it.” William Shakespeare
"Nationalisim is an infantile disease. It is the Measles of mankind" Albert Einstein
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:06 PM   #50
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wylde1 - Very accurate and very well put.
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Old 06-17-2010, 12:08 PM   #51
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This thread is full of quality information and feedback. There is a lot of wisdom in here for those open to it.
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