And Another Car Crash...

[Mr Twisty]

When you decide to trade or sell the car, reports will show crashed car. Depending on fla. law you may be allowed diminished value compensation, the difference between a clean car, and a repaired car. The ins. co. should be straightforward about it.

Bro. made a good point about some used parts matching better than new parts, I.E. taillight lenses yellow slightly in sun with age. Used parts OK, (no aftermarket crap) as long as they're as good as, or better than the existing parts were before the accident, and they pay for independent evaluation after repairs. And warrantee as long as you own the car...in writing.

Or if they cry too much tell them you're hiring a lawyer and they can pay for that too when you win.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

Ok, anyone that can shed some light on this would be a big help.

Situation:

The repair center called me to say that the insurance company wanted to fix my car with used parts. The repair manager, who was doing me a "favor" said, "I don't feel right about making the repair with used parts." and advised me to call the insurance company to ask for new oem parts to be used in my repair. He gave me the "you should have a warranty" line and I bought it. Since he was looking out for me.

So, I called the insurance company with my concern. To which they politely informed me that they stand by their estimate of the repair which calls for "like quality" replacement parts and the repair center would have to justify to them the need for new parts...

So, I call the repair manager back and repeat to him what I was told. He then gives me his sob story that he doesn't work for free and he needs fair compensation for the work he will be required to perform and he will not warranty any used parts unless I am willing to pay the difference... hmmmm.. I then explain to him that he needs to contact the insurance company and decide if he can repair the car within the estimate they provided him. Then I will decide if that repair is acceptable and make a decision as to whether or not I want to take may car somewhere else.


Ok, so here's what I'm thinking about all of this. It seems to me that the repair center is using me to apply pressure to the insurance company to, in short, get more money out of them. And the insurance company is using me as leverage to get them to do the repair for what they estimated...

I'm not a happy camper.......


Any insight would be nice right about now....

You should not be dealing with the shop at all. Ask the insurance company to consider another shop that is less likely to use you for their means. Thank the insurance company for their consideration. If you are a friendly insurance customer, then you will be treated better. Don't force your way on this one because you will get screwed by the person doing the labor, the company's estimate, or the products used.

[Camaro68]

Yup iv been in those type of hits before but I was in my truck.
Happened to me three times a at a stop light, bent her
license plate becose of my tail hitch and ball and the other two
times at a traffic light were the girl fell asleep behind the wheel
after being up all night with her baby witch i was glad she left
with the baby siter. the other one was a girl dropped a cd went
down to look for it and then she hit me at a traffic light, both
were ok but there they had a lot more damage then me. I now
look for options when im at the traffic lights and stop signs so
I can act if I see another person coming at me out of control.
$500 for the bumper on the first one, on the secend time
$800 a newer truck and paint for the bumper on this one.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69

When you decide to trade or sell the car, reports will show crashed car. Depending on fla. law you may be allowed diminished value compensation, the difference between a clean car, and a repaired car. The ins. co. should be straightforward about it.

Bro. made a good point about some used parts matching better than new parts, I.E. taillight lenses yellow slightly in sun with age. Used parts OK, (no aftermarket crap) as long as they're as good as, or better than the existing parts were before the accident, and they pay for independent evaluation after repairs. And warrantee as long as you own the car...in writing.

Or if they cry too much tell them you're hiring a lawyer and they can pay for that too when you win.

Calling about the deminished value compensation right now.

Thanks!

[Mr Twisty]

good...no matter who pays, let them know you'll be getting the car checked by another shop after repairs. (ins. co. and shop)

[radz28]

DUDE! I'm sorry I missed this!

First - I'm sorry you have to go through this and am glad you're okay and hope you're doing better.

Second - The bodyshop is more you friend than the insurance company. All the insurnace company wants to do is save money. I worked as an estimator at a bodyshop for more than five years (I hated every minute of it because of the insurance companies and will tell you which was the worst, but will not post here) and had to deal with the crap your estimator is dealing with; it sucks almost as bad as you're getting hit by the other driver.

Third - you SHOULD be dealing with the bodyshop. In California, it is illegal for the bodyshop to do anything the customer does not authorize; though the insurance company will tell you they are only authorizing such-and-such, the law does not really listen to them. It is the responsibility of the bodyshop to do the repair and the insurance company to pay for the repair. In California, the insurance company, by law, can not offer a warranty because they are not approved to perform vehicle repairs, so I would way be more on the bodyshop's side than the insurance company.

Fourth - In California, the customer is always entitled to a written estimate of what is going to be done to the car. Although a person who doesn't work at a bodyshop may not understand what "R&R, R&I, Prime and Block, Tint Color, Section Quarter Panel, etc. means, the bodyshop is responsible to explain it.

It looks to me like either the dealer would have to order a whole outer door opening panel and section it (that would include the entire frame around the doors, from the door hinges at the front door, the roof edge above both doors, the rear door post, rocker panel, and quarter panel) or perhaps a smaller section - sometimes, on cars that don't have seems like yours, quarter panel sections are available. If I still had estimating software, I could totally prepare you a really rough visual estimate but there's more damage underneath.

Originally Posted by Rallysport

I own a bodyshop, so I guess I'm qualified to answer this. Looks to me like you need a new quarter panel. I doubt that your car is totaled, but that depends on the car's value. If the damages exceed 70-75% of your retail value, the car is toast. This all depends on your labor rates where you live. I'm surprised they gave you a rental already, that's great. Just be thankful you are not dealing with Progressive insurance. Believe me, they are the WORST CAR INSURANCE COMPANY on the PLANET. I call them "Regressive" Remember, you are the boss in this situation. Insist on genuine manufacturer parts, no imitation junk! When you get the estimate, and have questions, let me know, I'll help you any way I can. Hope you are okay...sometimes aches or pains may occur in a day or so depending on how hard you were hit. Good luck.

Except for the opinion on Progressive.

Originally Posted by gtahvit

Ok, anyone that can shed some light on this would be a big help.

Situation:

The repair center called me to say that the insurance company wanted to fix my car with used parts. The repair manager, who was doing me a "favor" said, "I don't feel right about making the repair with used parts." and advised me to call the insurance company to ask for new oem parts to be used in my repair. He gave me the "you should have a warranty" line and I bought it. Since he was looking out for me.

So, I called the insurance company with my concern. To which they politely informed me that they stand by their estimate of the repair which calls for "like quality" replacement parts and the repair center would have to justify to them the need for new parts...

So, I call the repair manager back and repeat to him what I was told. He then gives me his sob story that he doesn't work for free and he needs fair compensation for the work he will be required to perform and he will not warranty any used parts unless I am willing to pay the difference... hmmmm.. I then explain to him that he needs to contact the insurance company and decide if he can repair the car within the estimate they provided him. Then I will decide if that repair is acceptable and make a decision as to whether or not I want to take may car somewhere else.


Ok, so here's what I'm thinking about all of this. It seems to me that the repair center is using me to apply pressure to the insurance company to, in short, get more money out of them. And the insurance company is using me as leverage to get them to do the repair for what they estimated...

I'm not a happy camper.......


Any insight would be nice right about now....

Like Quality is a nice way to say used parts. Your adjuster may be a newbie, because I remember newbies from this company but that's beside the point because depending on the way he saw the damage he could've written it for more than it needed. What I mean is, if they want an Like Kind and Quality (LKQ) part, the bodyshop is likely to get a whole section of the car they are removing it from - so that whole corner of the donor car. So they probably want your bodyshop to cut the quarter panel off the chunk of the donor car and put it on yours, but sometimes the bodyshop doesn't push that it is almost like doing double work, opposed to just replacing the quarter panel (because not only do you have to remove the panel off your car, you then have to spend time removing a panel from the LKQ part, clean it and straighten it, and then put it on your car. I'd see if you bodyshop has already looked into sectioning an OEM panel and see what else they need inside, like on the rear body panel, floor, inner and outer wheelhouses, etc. If you need wheelhouses and floor parts, it would may not be practical to use this LKQ chunk of garbage they are suggesting.

Originally Posted by 1_2Many

You shouldn't be dealing directly with the body shop at all except to pick up the car when it's done.

Tell your insurance company they need to deal with the body shop directly.

It is highly unlikely the insurance company would suggest using used parts on anything cosmetic, if you end up with a scuffed or used tail light or something similar I would ask for a new replacement and if they do not agree then file a report to BBB.

Many body shops cut corners to save a buck. Do not feel too sorry for this repair guy...I worked for a body shop for a while and this is typical BS he is telling you. Likely he will get a check from insurance company and cut corners to earn more $$$. If he has any skills at all he will mend the metal and save the new parts costs.

I almost entirely disagree with this post. I don't know what experience this person has in the autobody business or insurance business, but it is your car and you should be involved and you should know what's going on with it. Like I mentioned, in some states, THE CUSTOMER is the only entity to authorize repairs, NO ONE ELSE. Yeah, the insurance company may only agree to pay for a certain aspect of the repair, but then it's up to the bodyshop estimator to be there for you and fight for you; give you tools to get the job done correctly. In the end, who do you think is going to be liable for this repair if you were in another accident and their repairs failed because they allowed the insurance company to dictate how to repair cars, when they don't have the ability or license to repair cars?... Make your concerns clear to the estimator, and if you feel they are not serving your interests, you may have to bring management into the situation and if they do nothing, find another shop.

A lot of what was posted above goes against what I worked so hard for for my customers and is a little offensive, honestly...

Originally Posted by gtahvit

Wow!!!

Awesome information really, thanks everyone.

After reading everyone's thoughts it looks like I'm heading in the right direction.

Here's the update.

I finally spoke with the adjuster, who I'm pretty sure works for the insurance company. And, they are the "At Fault" insurance company, not my own. He explained to me that he would request the claims department to authorize the repair center to do the repair and pay for a warranty. But that would take a few more days.

Or, I could have my car repaired at one of their approved centers and get a life time warranty on all parts and labor whether parts are used (Like kind and quality) or OEM. The warranty would be as long as I own the car and as long as I live in the U.S.

He gave me the number of the preferred center and faxed me the approval rating of that center and explained to me that if they cant find used parts that are adequate then they will authorize new parts to be purchased and installed.

I guess I should have said this up front, the repair center I've been dealing with is a Mazda dealership. So, I don't know why they would be such pains about this whole process.

Bottom line is if I go with the preferred repair center I get a warranty if I go with the dealer I don't.

I've pretty much decided that preferred repair center is the way to go. Unless anyone can see a flaw in my logic.

I WOULD NOT take my car to a shop that repairs for this insurance company. If you do, they are only going to use the rubbish estimate the adjuster wrote. Progressive won't offer you a warranty, because they are not licensed to repair (unless the law is different in your state). The bodyshop would be the ones liable. Now, I will say that I worked at shops that had agreements and contracts with insurance companies, but we never were apart of networks that dictated repairs to our shops. We would agree to lower labor rates and parts discounts, and would sometimes have to use parts that weren't new OEM, but my customers were always informed and if they had questions, I could give them adjusters supervisors they could contact at their insurnace company that would explain what they were paying for in their policy.

What I would consider is opening a claim through your insurance company, and allow them to get involved. It is their job to protect you and they could write this up better and fulfill your expectations better. You will have more leverage with Progressive because you don't have a contract with them, unlike your insurance company, but they could write-up an LKQ part too. I would continue to push the estimator to fight Progressive and if the estimator doesn't help, then I'd let them know you're going to remove the car and take it elsewhere and get your insurance company involved. That might be motivation for your estimator to get off their duff and get on your page.

Keep us posted or PM me

Good luck buddy

[GTAHVIT]

Radz,

YOU ARE THE MAN!!!

Well, here's the good and the bad. The dealer's repair center basically refused to do the work and warranty the job. I couldn't figure out an angle to convince the insurance company to pay extra for warrantable parts, nor could I find an angle to get the dealer to warranty the repair for the estimated quote.

The LKQ scenario you describe above of finding a donor car and transplanting it into my car is exactly what the insurance company wants to do. After speaking to both repair centers here is what I found. The dealers wants all new factory pars and they want to recreate the rear quarter from scratch. The Insurance co. wants to cut an assembled rear quarter out of a doner car and install the complete rear quarter as an entire piece except for the outer body panels, lights, floor panels, shrouds etc. I'm pretty sure I understand the pros and cons of both. But in the end, the preferred repair center will give me a lifetime warranty while the dealer won't. And the preferred repair center has the option to refuse the LKQ parts if they aren't acceptable or adequate for the repair and warranty. Whether or not they will do this is anyone's guess.

So, with all things considered. I'm getting impatient, I want a warranty, I don't want to be the middle man any more and my gut, which has been wrong before, says the preferred center will keep my best interests. I don't have the time, to shop this job around, I wish I did but I just don't. That may sound a little hypocritical seeing as how much time I spend here, but that is a perk of the position I hold.

So, the bad is I'm probably gonna ride it out with the Ins Co's repair center and just watch them like a hawk.

I haven't signed the authorization to work form yet so it's not too late. Does anyone have a problem with the donor car LKQ repair that I'm not catching?

And once again, thanks to everyone.

[The_Stache]

Wow .. this has turned into a nightmare for you gtahvit.... Mine is going smoothly now.. the panels/hood have been replaced and it will be ready for paint tommorrow..

Things I have learned....

1. Know a good body shop before hand. I did and its made all the diference, it also helps that the body shop i know works with my insurance company and is a prefered servicer, and warranties the repairs for the life of the vehicle (as long as its owned by me).

2. EVEN IF THE COST OF THE REPAIR IS MORE THAN THE VEHICLE IT MAY NOT BE TOTALED... the total cost of repair for my truck... 5381.41... the total retail from kbb for my truck is 3500ish.

3. You dont HAVE to work with the bodyshop doing the repairs. You can literally deal only through the adjuster. BUT it will help if you already have an open dialog, just take a firm stand that it will be repaired like NEW.

4. Non- OEM parts do NOT mean cheap plastic chinese crud... ALL manufacturers pretty much don't MAKE the parts that are assembled into your car anymore. The THIRD PARTY parts are usualy from the same people that supply the OEM (BUT MAKE SURE TO CHECK).

5. this is a tip for you gtahvit - dont talk to the other guys insurance.. ignore them and there adjuster. GO TO YOUR INSURANCE HAVE THEM DEAL WITH THE OTHER GUYS INSURANCE. They know how the system works and you pay them for there service, this is there responsibility. You are also ENTITLED to a rental car if you vehicle will be unavailable.

[Cleric]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

5. this is a tip for you gtahvit - dont talk to the other guys insurance.. ignore them and there adjuster. GO TO YOUR INSURANCE HAVE THEM DEAL WITH THE OTHER GUYS INSURANCE. They know how the system works and you pay them for there service, this is there responsibility. You are also ENTITLED to a rental car if you vehicle will be unavailable.

In my experience (which is more than i like but i digress) if you file with your company to deal with another they will count is a claim and can (usually will) raise your rates.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Cleric

In my experience (which is more than i like but i digress) if you file with your company to deal with another they will count is a claim and can (usually will) raise your rates.

That is exactly what my ins co said. But, since it wasn't my fault, with a police report to prove it, they would seek complete reimbursement from the other driver's insurance co. So, I could use my company as a meidator but I would be at risk if they didn't get 100% reimbursement.

[Cleric]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

That is exactly what my ins co said. But, since it wasn't my fault, with a police report to prove it, they would seek complete reimbursement from the other driver's insurance co. So, I could use my company as a meidator but I would be at risk if they didn't get 100% reimbursement.

I think it is down right REDICOULOUS that to get your company to support you, you have to file a claim. Then there is now a claim on your file. So ramming your car into pole and totaling it and you get a claim too. So they see two people with claims, times are tough raise rates on anyone with "claims".

It is down right sick. I think insurance companies are abusive.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

Radz,

YOU ARE THE MAN!!!

Well, here's the good and the bad. The dealer's repair center basically refused to do the work and warranty the job. I couldn't figure out an angle to convince the insurance company to pay extra for warrantable parts, nor could I find an angle to get the dealer to warranty the repair for the estimated quote.

The LKQ scenario you describe above of finding a donor car and transplanting it into my car is exactly what the insurance company wants to do. After speaking to both repair centers here is what I found. The dealers wants all new factory pars and they want to recreate the rear quarter from scratch. The Insurance co. wants to cut an assembled rear quarter out of a doner car and install the complete rear quarter as an entire piece except for the outer body panels, lights, floor panels, shrouds etc. I'm pretty sure I understand the pros and cons of both. But in the end, the preferred repair center will give me a lifetime warranty while the dealer won't. And the preferred repair center has the option to refuse the LKQ parts if they aren't acceptable or adequate for the repair and warranty. Whether or not they will do this is anyone's guess.

So, with all things considered. I'm getting impatient, I want a warranty, I don't want to be the middle man any more and my gut, which has been wrong before, says the preferred center will keep my best interests. I don't have the time, to shop this job around, I wish I did but I just don't. That may sound a little hypocritical seeing as how much time I spend here, but that is a perk of the position I hold.

So, the bad is I'm probably gonna ride it out with the Ins Co's repair center and just watch them like a hawk.

I haven't signed the authorization to work form yet so it's not too late. Does anyone have a problem with the donor car LKQ repair that I'm not catching?

And once again, thanks to everyone.

It isn't too bad as long as the shop that does the work trims the parts of the LKQ assembly in such a way that everything overlaps and the z-cuts and such all perform like the manufacturer designed in the case of another crash in that area. When it comes down to it, if they can trim the parts they need, straighten them out, and provide enough corrosion protection, you probably will be okay, again, as long as it's done right. When I hear of an LKQ sectioning job I think of a hack chop-shop job where a bunch of people weld two halves of two different cars together to make one car. You can't do like that, but you can trim and fit different panels together and make it right, and if the shop can do that, and put it in writing, then you're probably going to be okay. I'd find a good shop, though, that works with Progressive, obviously

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

Wow .. this has turned into a nightmare for you gtahvit.... Mine is going smoothly now.. the panels/hood have been replaced and it will be ready for paint tommorrow..

Things I have learned....

1. Know a good body shop before hand. I did and its made all the diference, it also helps that the body shop i know works with my insurance company and is a prefered servicer, and warranties the repairs for the life of the vehicle (as long as its owned by me).

2. EVEN IF THE COST OF THE REPAIR IS MORE THAN THE VEHICLE IT MAY NOT BE TOTALED... the total cost of repair for my truck... 5381.41... the total retail from kbb for my truck is 3500ish.

3. You dont HAVE to work with the bodyshop doing the repairs. You can literally deal only through the adjuster. BUT it will help if you already have an open dialog, just take a firm stand that it will be repaired like NEW.

4. Non- OEM parts do NOT mean cheap plastic chinese crud... ALL manufacturers pretty much don't MAKE the parts that are assembled into your car anymore. The THIRD PARTY parts are usualy from the same people that supply the OEM (BUT MAKE SURE TO CHECK).

5. this is a tip for you gtahvit - dont talk to the other guys insurance.. ignore them and there adjuster. GO TO YOUR INSURANCE HAVE THEM DEAL WITH THE OTHER GUYS INSURANCE. They know how the system works and you pay them for there service, this is there responsibility. You are also ENTITLED to a rental car if you vehicle will be unavailable.

No offense, but this makes no sense. How are you to know what is going on with your repairs? The shop is supposed to be there to know what your expectations are and do their utmost to fulfill them with working with the insurance companies. I couldn't agree with the insurance company all the time, but, I did make sure my customer knew everything that was going on and involved them as much as they wanted to be, and made sure they knew I was working for THEM not the insurance company; I think this gets forgotten by many shops. Maybe you mean not to argue with your shop (because, to me, it sounds like they aren't too willing to work for you) and I agree in that case - I'd find another shop.

Since you could be finding another shop, I'd say go with one that has good reviews that is recommended by Progressive or just have your insurance company deal with it (I'd pull your car from where it's at now though because it doesn't sound like they're on your side anyways.) Since Progressive has accepted liability, you shouldn't have a deductable, and your company should deal with the shop you have it at directly. You will be confined by your policy because of your contract, but I don't think it will be much different than Progressive, except for the LKQ garbage.

Like diarmadhi said, not all aftermarket parts are garbage. The insurance company is responsible for restoring the vehicle back to pre-accident condition so if parts don't fit well or look right, you can complain and they should be able to get it handled. Make sure your shop understands what you expect and be involved with the estimator if you are so inclined and have the time (yeah, right ). You only want CAPA Certified parts if they won't pay for OEM and remanufactured bumpers, when repaired correctly, aren't all that bad.

Also, perhaps mention to all parties involved, that (if your state has it) you are going to take your car to a state-run inspection station to have your repairs inspected. In California, we have a Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR) that is run by the State's Department of Consumer Affairs and they provide a free service to any car owner who's had repairs done in that last three months (or whatever it is - I forget) and the customer brings in the repair invoice, and their inspectors go through the car, in the repair area, and make sure that everything was done correctly, and that the invoice accurately reflects what the repairs were (i.e. that everything the shop charged for, and the insurance company paid for was done and done correctly). I've had to use the BAR to threaten repairs shops that jacked me and that got their attitudes in check right away. If your state has a program like that, look into it, and make sure the shop and the insurance company knows that the way they repaired the car will be scrutinized. That should be enough to let them know you will be keeping an eye on them.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

That is exactly what my ins co said. But, since it wasn't my fault, with a police report to prove it, they would seek complete reimbursement from the other driver's insurance co. So, I could use my company as a meidator but I would be at risk if they didn't get 100% reimbursement.

Since Progressive has accepted liability, you shouldn't have anything come out of pocket unless the other driver didn't have enough coverage. If that's the case, you'd still be screwed for being responsible for the balance of what's due, so going with your company will not effect your rates and nothing should come out of your pocket unless there some depreciation in a tire or shock or something that's considered a wear item.

[The_Stache]

Originally Posted by gtahvit

That is exactly what my ins co said. But, since it wasn't my fault, with a police report to prove it, they would seek complete reimbursement from the other driver's insurance co. So, I could use my company as a meidator but I would be at risk if they didn't get 100% reimbursement.

Then I hate to tell ya but your insurance sucks... with state farm or country wide this is not true...

State farm gives accident forgiveness (1 accident in 10 years with you at fault) with no rate hike... I could have 5 accidents this year.. but if none are my fault my rate never changes.

With state farm yes you would have to submit a claim but it would not count against your rate/policy. With country wide you don't even have to submit a claim to get them working on the other insurance company.