ZL1 M6 - Headers, Roto-Fab, Upper Pulley 508w? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Battlezone580 · 05-01-2017, 10:40 PM

A few months ago I took my car to Izzy performance here in SoCal, they specialize in LSA and LS (very well know shop). They installed long tube headers, 2.55 in upper pulley, with a dyno tune. I installed the roto-fab intake prior. The shop told me I made 540whp which sounded about right, however I didn't see a dyno sheet.

As I'm you all can understand I wanted to verify the results so I had my car dynoed Sunday (hub dyno). First pull I made 503, second pull 483 due to temps. After a few minute break the final pull made 508whp. For the mods I have that seems low for a M6 ZL1? A stock M6 ZL1 should make 500-510whp. The headers also turned Lava red after the second pull with oil temps in the high 260's.

Any advice guys, something seems off here. See Dyno numbers below.

2ss-booya · 05-01-2017, 11:39 PM

what size upper?

Battlezone580 · 05-01-2017, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ss-booya

what size upper?

2.55 in upper pulley. Stock Lower Pulley.

STUNNAH · 05-02-2017, 12:00 AM

With a similar setup I got 575rwhp/569rwtq on my M6 so it seems that both your dyno pulls are low...Did you have the CAI on during the initial dyno tune or did you install it afterwards???How does the car run post mods and tune???Were you tuned on 93oct or race fuel???Have you put any lower oct gas in by chance???Any other mods you forgot to mention...

Ok I see that you did have the CAI installed prior to the 1st tune...I would check there 1st to make sure it's still fitted properly...Other than what I mentioned above you are loosing boost...If you can't find a leak I would take the car back to the shop that did the install...

RedZL1 · 05-02-2017, 01:32 AM

I don't see any mention of fuel system upgrades. If you're still on stock injectors with 2.5" upper, you may be out of gas...

STUNNAH · 05-02-2017, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedZL1

I don't see any mention of fuel system upgrades. If you're still on stock injectors with 2.5" upper, you may be out of gas...

2.5 upper is ok with no mods to the fueling system...

ZO6 Bryan · 05-02-2017, 07:41 AM

260 deg oil temp is very high for a dyno run. That temp is achieved after several minutes of aggressive road course driving. Shouldn't be that hot on the dyno.
You have cooling problems or tune problems. Glowing headers happen when timing is too far retarded. The fuel is finishing it's burn on the way out the exhaust.

NVRL8 ZL1 · 05-02-2017, 09:11 AM

A couple more factors to consider, a few months ago when you did the original runs, the DA would have been better than now ( I am assuming it's getting warm down there), also the brand of dyno might skew the number by a little bit.

If the ambient is hotter, the car would heat up faster, start to pull timing like Bryan mentioned. Did you let the car sit for a while between arriving at the second place and the first pull?

I'm no expert on dyno runs, I've only had mine on one for a few pulls. Would the SAE correction factor negate the DA change?

KaBoom1701 · 05-02-2017, 10:04 AM

Sounds like a bad tune to me.

Contact Ted at JRE.....he'll take care of you.

I trust very few people with my car...he is one I would trust to get the tune right.

Stephen12ZL1 · 05-02-2017, 10:08 AM

double check to ensure the intercooler circuit is filled and bled properly. Also, make sure the intercooler pump is functioning properly. The IAT2 temperatures were probably soaring causing the timing tables to be retarded. Hope this helps!

E. Bryant · 05-02-2017, 10:36 AM

If you are running cats with those headers, you might want to pull them and verify that they are still intact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by STUNNAH

2.5 upper is ok with no mods to the fueling system...

That's true on factory manifolds, but when headers are added to the mix, then the OP might be getting very close to the limits of the injectors.

ABADZL1 · 05-02-2017, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STUNNAH

2.5 upper is ok with no mods to the fueling system...

I strongly disagree on this

Crossover1le · 05-02-2017, 11:33 AM

Why?

ABADZL1 · 05-02-2017, 11:39 AM

Not every car responds the same. Stock injectors can run pretty high duty cycles totally stock. It may work in some. But that doesn't make it safe to say it will work for every car. Only data logging will tell. Check this link out. He put on a 2.5 upper only and see what trouble he's having.

https://www.hptuners.com/forum/showt...pulley-upgrade

05-01-2017, 10:40 PM	#1
Battlezone580 Drives: 2018 ZL1 1LE, 1969 Nova SS 396 Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 790 View My Garage	ZL1 M6 - Headers, Roto-Fab, Upper Pulley 508w? A few months ago I took my car to Izzy performance here in SoCal, they specialize in LSA and LS (very well know shop). They installed long tube headers, 2.55 in upper pulley, with a dyno tune. I installed the roto-fab intake prior. The shop told me I made 540whp which sounded about right, however I didn't see a dyno sheet. As I'm you all can understand I wanted to verify the results so I had my car dynoed Sunday (hub dyno). First pull I made 503, second pull 483 due to temps. After a few minute break the final pull made 508whp. For the mods I have that seems low for a M6 ZL1? A stock M6 ZL1 should make 500-510whp. The headers also turned Lava red after the second pull with oil temps in the high 260's. Any advice guys, something seems off here. See Dyno numbers below. __________________ 18 ZL1 1LE\|M6\|Nav\|PDR\|CF Hood\|CF WING\|CF Dash\|Tow Hook\| Last edited by Battlezone580; 05-01-2017 at 11:52 PM. Reason: added dyno picture

05-02-2017, 12:00 AM	#4
STUNNAH "BEASTM*DE" Drives: 2013 ZL1 Black Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,655 View My Garage	With a similar setup I got 575rwhp/569rwtq on my M6 so it seems that both your dyno pulls are low...Did you have the CAI on during the initial dyno tune or did you install it afterwards???How does the car run post mods and tune???Were you tuned on 93oct or race fuel???Have you put any lower oct gas in by chance???Any other mods you forgot to mention... Ok I see that you did have the CAI installed prior to the 1st tune...I would check there 1st to make sure it's still fitted properly...Other than what I mentioned above you are loosing boost...If you can't find a leak I would take the car back to the shop that did the install... __________________ Vengeance Racing Stage 1 Kit 575rwhp, 569 rwtq... Rims powder coated gloss black...BFG'S Comp 2 A/S... Dual 10" Kicker Comp S Subs 1200w... Last edited by STUNNAH; 05-02-2017 at 02:03 AM.

05-02-2017, 07:41 AM	#7
ZO6 Bryan Drives: 02 Z06, 95 Trans Am, 2012 ZL1 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Southeast Posts: 1,838 View My Garage	260 deg oil temp is very high for a dyno run. That temp is achieved after several minutes of aggressive road course driving. Shouldn't be that hot on the dyno. You have cooling problems or tune problems. Glowing headers happen when timing is too far retarded. The fuel is finishing it's burn on the way out the exhaust. __________________ Bryan 2018 ZL1 M6 Last edited by ZO6 Bryan; 05-03-2017 at 06:37 PM.

05-02-2017, 10:04 AM	#9
KaBoom1701 KaBoom1701 Drives: 13' ZL1 Red M6 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: I.E. SoCal (Yucaipa) Posts: 8,630	Sounds like a bad tune to me. Contact Ted at JRE.....he'll take care of you. I trust very few people with my car...he is one I would trust to get the tune right. __________________ Mods: Roto-Fab Intake, WW Res. kit & Big Gulp Air Scoop, Elite Catch Can, ATI Super Damper & 18% OD Pulley, LF Idler pulley bracket, Metco CC breather, ID850 Injectors, Stainless Power Headers w/ ceramic coating, TR71X Spark Plugs, JMS Fuel Pump Booster, Bo White TB, Tuned by Ted @ Jannetty Racing, Ron Davis HX, D3 Reservoir, Pfadt 1" Springs, Moreno Camber Plates, ZL1 Addons Splitter guard washers, Tow Hook kit & rock guards, Hurst Shifter Billet Plus 6 Speed Short Shifter, ZL1 DRL lighting harness, ZL1 Recaro Seats.

05-02-2017, 10:08 AM	#10
Stephen12ZL1 Drives: '21 ZLE A10 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Mechanicsville, VA Posts: 6,808	double check to ensure the intercooler circuit is filled and bled properly. Also, make sure the intercooler pump is functioning properly. The IAT2 temperatures were probably soaring causing the timing tables to be retarded. Hope this helps! __________________ '21 ZLE A10 Wild Cherry PDR 2:00.78 VIR Full 10.68@131.69 1.68 60' '17 ZL1 A10 Mosaic Black PDR/Nav 2:03.08 VIR Full 11.003@129.2 1.75 (sold) '15 Z/28 #325 Black a/c & stereo. 2:10.1 VIR Full (sold) '12 ZL1 A6 Black 10.52@131 1.55 60' 2:13 VIR Full (sold)

05-01-2017, 11:39 PM	#2
2ss-booya Drives: 2015 SS Sedan M6 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 1,086	what size upper?

05-02-2017, 01:32 AM	#5
RedZL1 Drives: Victory Red ZL1 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Fairless Hills PA Posts: 125	I don't see any mention of fuel system upgrades. If you're still on stock injectors with 2.5" upper, you may be out of gas...

05-02-2017, 09:11 AM	#8
NVRL8 ZL1 W8NN4U Drives: '13 ZL1 A6 Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Medicine Hat Posts: 137 View My Garage	A couple more factors to consider, a few months ago when you did the original runs, the DA would have been better than now ( I am assuming it's getting warm down there), also the brand of dyno might skew the number by a little bit. If the ambient is hotter, the car would heat up faster, start to pull timing like Bryan mentioned. Did you let the car sit for a while between arriving at the second place and the first pull? I'm no expert on dyno runs, I've only had mine on one for a few pulls. Would the SAE correction factor negate the DA change?

05-02-2017, 11:33 AM	#13
Crossover1le Drives: WS6 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Dallas TX Posts: 111	Why?

05-02-2017, 11:39 AM	#14
ABADZL1 ZL1 Pilot Drives: 2013 ZL1 Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: TN Posts: 1,670 View My Garage	Not every car responds the same. Stock injectors can run pretty high duty cycles totally stock. It may work in some. But that doesn't make it safe to say it will work for every car. Only data logging will tell. Check this link out. He put on a 2.5 upper only and see what trouble he's having. https://www.hptuners.com/forum/showt...pulley-upgrade __________________ GP Tuning 2.5 Cam, RPS Carbon Twin Clutch, Ported Blower, Kook's Headers, Cold Air Inductions CAI, ID850's, 9.17 Lower, 2.5 Upper, JMS BAP, Pedders Front Radius Arm Inserts, Whiteline Subframe Inserts, Tuned by me with HP Tuners Idle Clip Link...........https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTL8S9eHwbs