Cam options. Why not the stock converter? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

mchaggis · 07-07-2021, 05:02 PM

This has probably been covered many times but after much searching I'm not much further ahead.
The main comment made when doing a cam upgrade is to change the converter. I get this and have an older car with a SBC with a 228/230 cam on 107 centers and I'm running a 3500 LU with 3.73 gears. Great combo.

BUT I did run this same car with a 232/232 on 108 with 2.87 gears and a 2100 stall. Even with this combo it was perfectly drive-able but sure was slower off the mark.

So I've got a 2011 L99 and am looking to go to maybe the TSP stage 2. A circle D landed here in NZ will cost me at least $2000 for the single disc so I'm trying to kid myself that I can live with the stock converter.

So please tell me the real reasons why the stock converters won't work with a fairly mild cam and why I either need to go to a smaller cam or just suck it up and buy a converter.
Or.... can it work with a TSP VVT 2.2?

InFiD3ViL · 07-07-2021, 08:00 PM

They will work. They just won't work well. It's not optimal, and I think most of us in here want our cars to perform at their best.

I have the GPI SS1 LS3 cam. Its fairly high lift @ 647/.638, but with mild duration of 224/237 and overlap @ 7º, on a 112 LSA, +4 degrees of advance ground in. I am absolutely in need of a convertor, although this was supposed to be a stock convertor friendly cam. It pushes very hard through the brakes at traffic lights and rocks like crazy when the cam lopes when in gear. But the bigger issue, when I go WOT I have a bit of a dead/lazy spot until I hit 3800rpm+, where my cam really starts making power. Could I leave it like this? Sure, but I want to be able to take advantage of the power I should be making and not leave anything on the table, so I will be going with a 3800 or 4k stall as soon as I can afford.

So take everything I am describing imagine going with an even larger cam. I couldn't imagine losing any more drivability than I already have. There comes a point where the gains from the cam are lost by running the stock convertor, since you can never get into power band quickly enough.

zz430camaro · 07-07-2021, 08:20 PM

Sure you can use the stock converter, it just wont ET as good or it might feel slower cause of the reduced low end torque caused by the cam.

1JEWLDSSRS · 07-07-2021, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InFiD3ViL

They will work. They just won't work well. It's not optimal, and I think most of us in here want our cars to perform at their best.

I have the GPI SS1 LS3 cam. Its fairly high lift @ 647/.638, but with mild duration of 224/237 and overlap @ 7º, on a 112 LSA, +4 degrees of advance ground in. I am absolutely in need of a convertor, although this was supposed to be a stock convertor friendly cam. It pushes very hard through the brakes at traffic lights and rocks like crazy when the cam lopes when in gear. But the bigger issue, when I go WOT I have a bit of a dead/lazy spot until I hit 3800rpm+, where my cam really starts making power. Could I leave it like this? Sure, but I want to be able to take advantage of the power I should be making and not leave anything on the table, so I will be going with a 3800 or 4k stall as soon as I can afford.

So take everything I am describing imagine going with an even larger cam. I couldn't imagine losing any more drivability than I already have. There comes a point where the gains from the cam are lost by running the stock convertor, since you can never get into power band quickly enough.

Great info here!! I am running the TSP Stage 3 cam 231/246@112 LSA 614/641 lift and WAS running a Precision 3200 stall which worked ok, but like InFiD3ViL said above, I too had a dull/lazy spot right around the same area, so I went with a Circle D 5C single disc 4200-4500 stall and wow did it make a huge difference in the cars off the line and on the roll performance. Can you use a stock converter? Yes, but as stated you will be leaving A LOT of performance on the table and it won't be optimal, would be more of a nuisance than a gain.

Inferno dogg · 07-08-2021, 09:37 AM

Suck it up and buy the converter or just leave it stock. I had my Circle D 3800 in with stock cam and the car was a blast !! So much better then stock converter. STOCK CONVERTER SUCKS!!!!!

62nalide · 07-08-2021, 10:26 AM

Bolt Ons with a converter over a cammed car with a stock converter...

morepowerjoe · 07-08-2021, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 62nalide

Bolt Ons with a converter over a cammed car with a stock converter...

A good option if you don't have the afm crap to deal with.

mchaggis · 07-08-2021, 09:51 PM

Ok, so I suck it up and do a converter and the TSP VVT 2.2 cam. What converter?

Roader · 07-08-2021, 11:44 PM

Hit up Chris at circle d and he will point you right direction. I’d do a 3600 if me though

morepowerjoe · 07-09-2021, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mchaggis

Ok, so I suck it up and do a converter and the TSP VVT 2.2 cam. What converter?

I just wanted to let you know that after I did my SS1 cam from gpi I stuck with the stock converter and had a higher then normal tranny temperature. So I had to put in a tru cool 40k tranny cooler. I'd imagine if you went a tad bigger you would have even more of a high temperature then I did. Even if you do get a converter you'll still have to install a tranny cooler because the higher stall creates more heat.

I don't see why you don't just go with a stage 1 and save some money. With the gpi SS1 cam I made 438rwhp and that's with chambered mufflers and cats. If I had used a straight through design and went catless I think I would be closer to 450rwhp. It isn't that much more with a stage 2 cam. Just saying.

Ashen L99 · 07-09-2021, 01:10 AM

Honestly, if you don’t mind the car trying to push on the brakes at a stoplight, there is nothing wrong with a stock converter. I did a stall on stock cam with 3.91s and left the line hard…. But that’s all it’s good for. If you roll race or just don’t care about getting off the line there is only the cam surge to worry about. If that don’t bother ya then you don’t need one. My friend on here, visibilities, had a BTR stage 3 pd cam with a d1sc pro charger on stock stall and was fine.

SSEssence · 07-09-2021, 10:08 AM

Been running BTR stage 2 with a stock converter for over 2 years, and with the right tune, the car runs great and doesnt try to push through the brakes at a light. I didnt go with a converter because I like to track and run canyons and didnt want to overheat the trans. It's been a fun ride!

ss camaro-monte · 07-10-2021, 07:28 PM

As much as I love my circle d converter is there any other options for you in New Zealand? I am assuming you are talking about with just shipping it is around 2k not installed? I am in Houston so I just drive 7 miles to their shop.lol

I don't know what the mods available to you are like locally. Is it cheaper to get something from Australia? The Holden guys are big online and I am sure there must be convertor companies there as the Aussies are big into muscle cars, though I know it isn't close at all like people think.

ss camaro-monte · 07-10-2021, 07:41 PM

Like 62nalide said though. Converter before cam imo if you don't do both. With bolt ons, tune, 90% rear suspension upgrade, just a 3200 circle d 11 inch converter and drag radials I went from 13.1 to 12.3 and that was just 3 attempts at the track so I know it has another tenth or two in it.

There is a lot you can do to these cars to make them faster without going into the motor though. Converter, suspension and drag radials are a must if you are drag racing but if you want it to just pull harder on the highway or above 40mph a mild cam will be fine without a stall converter.

07-07-2021, 05:02 PM	#1
mchaggis Drives: 2011 L99 2SS Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: South Island, New Zealand Posts: 120	Cam options. Why not the stock converter? This has probably been covered many times but after much searching I'm not much further ahead. The main comment made when doing a cam upgrade is to change the converter. I get this and have an older car with a SBC with a 228/230 cam on 107 centers and I'm running a 3500 LU with 3.73 gears. Great combo. BUT I did run this same car with a 232/232 on 108 with 2.87 gears and a 2100 stall. Even with this combo it was perfectly drive-able but sure was slower off the mark. So I've got a 2011 L99 and am looking to go to maybe the TSP stage 2. A circle D landed here in NZ will cost me at least $2000 for the single disc so I'm trying to kid myself that I can live with the stock converter. So please tell me the real reasons why the stock converters won't work with a fairly mild cam and why I either need to go to a smaller cam or just suck it up and buy a converter. Or.... can it work with a TSP VVT 2.2?

07-07-2021, 08:00 PM	#2
InFiD3ViL Drives: 2010 CGM 2SS/RS LS3 Swapped A6 Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Spring Hill, FL Posts: 4,574	They will work. They just won't work well. It's not optimal, and I think most of us in here want our cars to perform at their best. I have the GPI SS1 LS3 cam. Its fairly high lift @ 647/.638, but with mild duration of 224/237 and overlap @ 7º, on a 112 LSA, +4 degrees of advance ground in. I am absolutely in need of a convertor, although this was supposed to be a stock convertor friendly cam. It pushes very hard through the brakes at traffic lights and rocks like crazy when the cam lopes when in gear. But the bigger issue, when I go WOT I have a bit of a dead/lazy spot until I hit 3800rpm+, where my cam really starts making power. Could I leave it like this? Sure, but I want to be able to take advantage of the power I should be making and not leave anything on the table, so I will be going with a 3800 or 4k stall as soon as I can afford. So take everything I am describing imagine going with an even larger cam. I couldn't imagine losing any more drivability than I already have. There comes a point where the gains from the cam are lost by running the stock convertor, since you can never get into power band quickly enough. __________________ 2010 CGM Camaro 2SS LS3 Swapped A6 - GPI LS3 SS1 .647/.638, (224/237, 112 +4, 7º overlap) on CamMotion 8620 core, BTR Platinum .660" Dual Spring kit w/titanium retainers, CHE bronze trunnion upgrade, stock heads milled @ .015, Melling HV 10296 oil pump, TSP 1-7/8" long tube headers (W/Catless Off-road Pipes), Corsa Xtreme 3" Catback, GPI Ported/Rod Mod Intake, Stage 2 Ported Throttle Body, Vararam OTR CAI, Mike Norris Gen 2 catch can + GM 1LE clean side separator, 160º thermostat - Megan Racing adjustable coilovers (lowered 1.75"), MRR M017 10/11" wheels-Tuned by Ryan @ GPI

07-07-2021, 08:20 PM	#3
zz430camaro Drives: 2015 1LE Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 1,485	Sure you can use the stock converter, it just wont ET as good or it might feel slower cause of the reduced low end torque caused by the cam. __________________ 2015 1LE, TSP 225/236 113+3, VMAX Throttle Body, CAI with race scoop, GPI Ported Intake, Land Speed Stage 2 Heads, 1-7/8 headers, NPP exhaust, 25% Fluidampr, LT1-S Monster Clutch, 485 RWHP & 444 TQ

07-08-2021, 09:37 AM	#5
Inferno dogg Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Michigan Posts: 157	Suck it up and buy the converter or just leave it stock. I had my Circle D 3800 in with stock cam and the car was a blast !! So much better then stock converter. STOCK CONVERTER SUCKS!!!!! __________________ GPI SS3 cam with top end goodies,Circle D 4c 3800 w/Derale trans cooler kit sold by GPI,3.90 yukon gears,Kooks long tube headers,Roto fab cold air intake, Corsa extreme 3" cat back, Dyno tuned by Andrews Auto Georgetown MI, Heritage Grille, T4 splitter with under tray, Anvil spoiler,MRR 228 reps with Nitto NT555G2 tires 315 rear 275 fronts,BMR poly bushings,HD Diff cover from RDP,Raytech install kit

07-08-2021, 10:26 AM	#6
62nalide Drives: 2013 SS Join Date: May 2013 Location: DFW Posts: 4,102	Bolt Ons with a converter over a cammed car with a stock converter... __________________ https://frankensteined.net/ Martin@Frankensteined.net

07-08-2021, 09:51 PM	#8
mchaggis Drives: 2011 L99 2SS Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: South Island, New Zealand Posts: 120	Ok, so I suck it up and do a converter and the TSP VVT 2.2 cam. What converter?

07-08-2021, 11:44 PM	#9
Roader Drives: Camaro Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Alabama Posts: 673	Hit up Chris at circle d and he will point you right direction. I’d do a 3600 if me though

07-09-2021, 01:10 AM	#11
Ashen L99 Drives: Ashen grey, 1SS, L99 Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 526	Honestly, if you don’t mind the car trying to push on the brakes at a stoplight, there is nothing wrong with a stock converter. I did a stall on stock cam with 3.91s and left the line hard…. But that’s all it’s good for. If you roll race or just don’t care about getting off the line there is only the cam surge to worry about. If that don’t bother ya then you don’t need one. My friend on here, visibilities, had a BTR stage 3 pd cam with a d1sc pro charger on stock stall and was fine. __________________ Roto-fab CAI, Nick Williams 102mm TB, LOD X1 V3 intake manifold, GMPP LS3 heads, Night Fury cam, TSP 2” long tubes, Corsa ZL-1 catback, Nitrous Outlet 102mm plate kit/150 shot, NGK BR7EF plugs with Taylor plug wires, DSX flex fuel kit, ZL-1 fuel pump and injectors, B&M deep trans pan, Yank 3400 converter, 3.45s with BMR Delrin bushings, mishimoto 169° Thermostat, GM ground effects, T-Rex upper grill, Z/28 Spoiler, Lolly pop Lime brake calipers, ZL1 10 spoke wheels, 12” subwoofer, and custom paint matched interior.

07-09-2021, 10:08 AM	#12
SSEssence Instagram: Sangstah Drives: 2019 Camaro 1LE Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Buena Park, CA. Posts: 2,802 View My Garage	Been running BTR stage 2 with a stock converter for over 2 years, and with the right tune, the car runs great and doesnt try to push through the brakes at a light. I didnt go with a converter because I like to track and run canyons and didnt want to overheat the trans. It's been a fun ride! __________________ 2019 SS 1LE - "CaSSandra" 2014 SS - "AleSSandra - Sold" 94 Z28 - Sold Follow the build https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=612717

07-10-2021, 07:28 PM	#13
ss camaro-monte Drives: 2015 camaro 2ss, 87 monte ss Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Houston Posts: 241	As much as I love my circle d converter is there any other options for you in New Zealand? I am assuming you are talking about with just shipping it is around 2k not installed? I am in Houston so I just drive 7 miles to their shop.lol I don't know what the mods available to you are like locally. Is it cheaper to get something from Australia? The Holden guys are big online and I am sure there must be convertor companies there as the Aussies are big into muscle cars, though I know it isn't close at all like people think.

07-10-2021, 07:41 PM	#14
ss camaro-monte Drives: 2015 camaro 2ss, 87 monte ss Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Houston Posts: 241	Like 62nalide said though. Converter before cam imo if you don't do both. With bolt ons, tune, 90% rear suspension upgrade, just a 3200 circle d 11 inch converter and drag radials I went from 13.1 to 12.3 and that was just 3 attempts at the track so I know it has another tenth or two in it. There is a lot you can do to these cars to make them faster without going into the motor though. Converter, suspension and drag radials are a must if you are drag racing but if you want it to just pull harder on the highway or above 40mph a mild cam will be fine without a stall converter.