Sold the camaro to a dealer and now they want their money back.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Supercharged2011

Sorry for the delay getting back on here, their is nothing shady or fishy about the deal on my side. I was asked to sign paperwork stating if there has been any modifications that would void the warranty and I declined to sign the paper due to being aftermarket parts on the car. At this point I am trying to get in contact with someone that can tell me if these roll bar holes are considered "frame damage" and would warrant the car being branded a "Salvage title", I also contacted the couple companies that make bolt in roll bars for our car and they all stated they would find it very hard to believe that bolting a cage into the car would cause a salvage title.

Well, good luck. Any other details you would add would be appreciated....

Just curious...Void what warranty?...a theoretical warranty on a 5-6 year old car?.....Were they ok with your "declining to sign the paper"..? or was that an oversight, something they missed on their part?....If it were true, and nothing shady about it, why wouldn't you sign it?

Good luck on the holes....I think they may be grabbing at straws to get out of the deal somehow...Please let us know the outcome....I'm sure everyone, especially anyone with a roll-bar, would like to know the outcome...

Good luck, again.

[nyrfan]

Originally Posted by 90503

Well, good luck. Any other details you would add would be appreciated....

Just curious...Void what warranty?...a theoretical warranty on a 5-6 year old car?.....Were they ok with your "declining to sign the paper"..? or was that an oversight, something they missed on their part?....If it were true, and nothing shady about it, why wouldn't you sign it?

Good luck on the holes....I think they may be grabbing at straws to get out of the deal somehow...Please let us know the outcome....I'm sure everyone, especially anyone with a roll-bar, would like to know the outcome...

Good luck, again.

A tune is not shady, however could technically void a warranty. For that reason alone I would would decline to sign the P/W for fear it could come back to bite me.

[JerTM]

Originally Posted by nyrfan

Not really. If you look at the "last edited date", he asks for deletions as things are sold. Some deletion requests go back well over a year.

The thread I posted was deleted after I had put it up. Most of the deletions are very recent.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Supercharged2011

Sorry for the delay getting back on here, their is nothing shady or fishy about the deal on my side. I was asked to sign paperwork stating if there has been any modifications that would void the warranty and I declined to sign the paper due to being aftermarket parts on the car. At this point I am trying to get in contact with someone that can tell me if these roll bar holes are considered "frame damage" and would warrant the car being branded a "Salvage title", I also contacted the couple companies that make bolt in roll bars for our car and they all stated they would find it very hard to believe that bolting a cage into the car would cause a salvage title.

From what I've seen his bigest mistake was making this thread. All the current deletions and post asking for carpet and plastic trim pieces in the back would indicate that he knew all about the roll cage and didn't disclose it. Hell his post above shows that he knew all about the roll cage. If I was the dealer, I would be pursuing action on this one. Purposely misrepresenting anything that someone sells can be problems. Why should a dealer get ripped off anymore than anyone else?
If this was a dealer that sold this car to the OP The Dude would be starting a petition and the pitchforks and tourchs would be coming out. Shady is shady no matter who it is.

Sorry OP, but you should have to buy that butcher job back if you didn't disclose what it is.
You aren't only screwing the dealer, but quite possibility a potential buyer. Not sure how some people sleep at night.

[90503]

If not being aware that failure to disclose that your car at one time had a roll-bar is fraud, and that the installation of a roll-bar instantly requires your car become registered with a Salvage Title, there will be a lot more upset people than just the op and that dealership...lol...

[Ledzepx]

I smell something and it's hitting the fan. Something tells me that OP should have kept it quite here.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by 90503

If not being aware that failure to disclose that your car at one time had a roll-bar is fraud, and that the installation of a roll-bar instantly requires your car become registered with a Salvage Title, there will be a lot more upset people than just the op and that dealership...lol...

Agree, but none of us know the entire story either. For me ,I could never sell or trade in a car that was a one time race car and pass it off as a normal street car. I've fixed issues with cars before trading them in because I don't like screwing people over. Sure I could clear codes and run to the dear and trade before they reappear, but that's being a liar. I don't roll that way.

Who knows where the truth lies here. But the OP's actions in the last few days sure make him look like he's trying to hide something. Does drilling holes in a unibody to install a roll cage hurt the structure when the case is removed, who knows. I can promise you that if GM is denying warranties on oil pumps for having a catch can that roll cage mounting holes in the unibody would be the kiss of death. I wouldn't want a car that had a previous roll cage installed unless I was building a race car.

This one will have to be for the lawyers to decide if the dealership wants to.


They biggest thing that sticks out to me is that the OP said they wanted him to sign a paper. They must have already supected somethings. ive purchased and traded hunders of cars and trucks and have never been ask anything remotely like that. If they did supect something they should have walked from the deal. That's why things aren't adding up here. Why do people post this stuff on the internet? Cracks me up everytime.

[ssrs2lt]

This is insane, I've never seen a dealer come back and try void sale. They only give you 3 days for returns..good luck op

[Mkn95u0]

Good luck. I don't know the law on this, but i can't help but think a seller of a used car would be any type of concerning situation legally, even in California.

IMO it'll be difficult for anyone to provide an arguement that says the addition then removal of a roll cage causes structural damage to the subframe of a vehicle and thus is grounds for a salvaged title, when the existing title is clean.

http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/salvaged-vehicles.php

[90503]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Agree, but none of us know the entire story either. For me ,I could never sell or trade in a car that was a one time race car and pass it off as a normal street car. I've fixed issues with cars before trading them in because I don't like screwing people over. Sure I could clear codes and run to the dear and trade before they reappear, but that's being a liar. I don't roll that way.

Who knows where the truth lies here. But the OP's actions in the last few days sure make him look like he's trying to hide something. Does drilling holes in a unibody to install a roll cage hurt the structure when the case is removed, who knows. I can promise you that if GM is denying warranties on oil pumps for having a catch can that roll cage mounting holes in the unibody would be the kiss of death. I wouldn't want a car that had a previous roll cage installed unless I was building a race car.

This one will have to be for the lawyers to decide if the dealership wants to.


They biggest thing that sticks out to me is that the OP said they wanted him to sign a paper. They must have already supected somethings. ive purchased and traded hunders of cars and trucks and have never been ask anything remotely like that. If they did supect something they should have walked from the deal. That's why things aren't adding up here. Why do people post this stuff on the internet? Cracks me up everytime.

I'm surprised that dealers are willing to take in any cars that have been modded at all....The risk for problems, especially when they go to re-sell them is huge.

I'm not a dealer fan, but I agree that they run the risk of getting a turkey that has been modified. I think the op should count his blessings they agreed to buy it at all. If the dealer gets stuck with a bad deal, then oh well, it happens. Sounds like they need to up their game on inspections and be more selective.

And like you say, there is much more to the story on both sides. But the prospect of roll-bars (as a stand-alone issue) I think needs to be resolved.

I have never heard of any previous threads or stories that roll-bar holes are a problem. And to clarify, there is a big difference in cars that are set-up to race, compared to the majority that put in roll-bars just for occaisional track days.

[Freddy G]

This is a very interesting thread.. I know lots people demod their car then trade back to the dealer, its not our responsibility to tell them the cars pervious history. Whatever is on the car proof is what they get. If im buying a used car that's all I get from the dealer as well. As of honesty, I'll do whatever it takes to get the most value for my car. If the dealer doesn't ask, I wont tell. simple as that. Dealer is buying a car from private seller, then they have to take the risk. Im not expecting to get my money back if I bought someone's car on Craigslist.

[Mkn95u0]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I could never sell or trade in a car that was a one time race car and pass it off as a normal street car. .

a street legal race car is the same as a street car, granted not 'normal' but it is definitely a street car. a few modifications does not change that. There are 1000hp + cars that have tamable street tunes that could be sold as a steetable race car, I just don't see why anyone could never sell a car that was modified to be race capable, makes no sense to me, it's not a crime and you're not screwing anyone over.

I always look at it from a personal perspective. I have a modified 2012 SS Camaro that i've raced (and have 0 intentions of selling and will probably be buried in it). I know that it is in great condition despite me racing it so wouldn't lose any sleep at night selling it in it's current condition because i know it's dependable / reliable and me racing it a few (dozen) times doesn't change that. Is it a race car? no, it's a street car that was drag raced.

I wouldn't hide that it was raced, but if it were going to a dealership, i probably wouldn't think / care to mention that it was. If they asked if it was modified, i would say yes and/or decline to sign paper work that states it wasn't.

[Supercharged2011]

At this point I have contacted the local Highway patrol Salvage inspection division and also 2 insurance claims departments and all have told me that holes in the body would not result in frame damage or becoming a salvage title. At this point I am going to wait until the dealer contacts me again and provide them with this information and see what their next move will be.

I never deceived anyone during this whole process nor do I want to.

I do appreciate everyones advice and input on the whole matter and I will post a update once I hear one. Again Thank you for the advice and comments.

[Mkn95u0]

Originally Posted by Supercharged2011

At this point I have contacted the local Highway patrol Salvage inspection division and also 2 insurance claims departments and all have told me that holes in the body would not result in frame damage or becoming a salvage title. At this point I am going to wait until the dealer contacts me again and provide them with this information and see what their next move will be.

I never deceived anyone during this whole process nor do I want to.

I do appreciate everyones advice and input on the whole matter and I will post a update once I hear one. Again Thank you for the advice and comments.

I feel like you're going to be fine. Good luck