Lower the Drinking age?

[Georgie]

military yes, civil no

because military law is more strict

[Beelzebubba]

and HEY, if a ignition interlock isn't bad enough, you could also be court ordered to wear this:

[dvnt88]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

type of alcohol has nothing to do with it. hard liquor or beer....age should remain up there.

People....the older ones here were once your age too!!! WE wanted the age lowered as well!!! Now that we are older, we are wiser and HAVE MORE EXPERIENCE!!!!

Don't get mad. Relax and enjoy the fact that states are keeping you alive by not allowing you or your friends to drive you around drunk.

In Texas, we have a zero tolerance law. If you are under age, you've had ANY alcohol in your system, and you are driving, you automatically GO TO JAIL. How do ya like them apples??

Agreed 110%. Enjoy your teen years 'cause 21 will show up faster then you think. ")

Originally Posted by TFord

were doing a lot of talking about the underage drivers....and yes all of the points are valid, But IMHO I dont think people above drinking age drive much better. I seriously have driven well over 100K in the last 6 years, Cross country 3 times, and from FL to Chicago at least 12 times....I really dont feel any better with adults on the road. I think Im a D@&* good driver, but its my ability to survey the road that has kept me from being in serious accidents. Usually with new drivers I can tell that they're about to do something stupid and change my line accordingly. Adults are worse because most the time they do something stupid without warning! Here in WA Ive been surprised in the poor driving. I dont know how many times someone has tried to change into my lane and Im right friggin there!, or someone suddenly darts over into my lane when the car in front of me passes them and there is barely enough room for them and no turn signal. I usually give 3 flashes of my turn signal before I start changing lanes...I cant count the amount of times theres a guy like 4 car lengths back, sees me coming over and tries to punch it. then tailgates me for 5 friggin minutes. the vast majority of the time its adults usually old and unattentive, rich and uncaring, or just a plain douch! Now when we add alcohol in the mix I cant be much of a judge, because well me or my friends could not afford a car untill we were 19+ years old.

I agree with you as the drivers in Portland are pretty bad for the same things you mentioned. I've driven in Chicago for years and thought they sucked for driving skills until I moved to Portland. ")

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

now in general, the outlook is "they need to learn sooner than later" well, these rules are put there for a reason, to keep us safe.

and while it sucks for military to be able to die for their country and not enjoy a beer....well, here's an idea. dont join the ****ing military. YOU MAKE THE CHOICE TO JOIN THE MILITARY. you dont have to join at 17, 18, 19, but most who do, are in a hurry to get out of their hometowns cus they are spoiled and think that its soooooooooo hard growing up in middle america... too ****ing bad. grow up.


and yes im military,

Who says that 21 is the magical age that keeps us safe? some doctor from 50 yrs ago or whatever. . .

(speaking from military xp here). I don't know how long you've been in and I can't even remember what career field you are in. But maintainers are notorious for being alcoholics. I am a maintainer. now that said, I honestly believe the drinking age for military should be lowered. if you've signed up for service you are giving back to society. Also we are governed by stricter rules and regulations that also can govern our drinking habits. Because of that why not allow an 18 yr old to drink? if he messes up he's punished, article 15 or just a no drinking order. . .if there is less focus on drinking then it wouldn't be as big of an issue. but america (in general) believe the only way to have fun is drink.

if you can make a good argument on why is shouldn't be lowered other then that's the way it is and has been. . .I would like to discuss that.

As for your discription of how/why people join the military it's not accurate for 60+% of the af and I'm sure the army is the same way. I personally joined because I knew I wasn't going to attend class in college (took 24 credit hrs and only completed 19 first year) and decided that the AF was a better option. there are more stories of people that got in trouble and needed to get away or college. . .etc etc etc. it's not that they were running away from home. but that's a different thread.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

Who says that 21 is the magical age that keeps us safe? some doctor from 50 yrs ago or whatever. . .

(speaking from military xp here). I don't know how long you've been in and I can't even remember what career field you are in. But maintainers are notorious for being alcoholics. I am a maintainer. now that said, I honestly believe the drinking age for military should be lowered. if you've signed up for service you are giving back to society. Also we are governed by stricter rules and regulations that also can govern our drinking habits. Because of that why not allow an 18 yr old to drink? if he messes up he's punished, article 15 or just a no drinking order. . .if there is less focus on drinking then it wouldn't be as big of an issue. but america (in general) believe the only way to have fun is drink.

if you can make a good argument on why is shouldn't be lowered other then that's the way it is and has been. . .I would like to discuss that.

As for your discription of how/why people join the military it's not accurate for 60+% of the af and I'm sure the army is the same way. I personally joined because I knew I wasn't going to attend class in college (took 24 credit hrs and only completed 19 first year) and decided that the AF was a better option. there are more stories of people that got in trouble and needed to get away or college. . .etc etc etc. it's not that they were running away from home. but that's a different thread.

im a maintainer as well (AMC=Alcoholics Moving Cargo), and ive watched too many people get hurt or ruin their lives (military or civilian) for drinking underage. the solution isnt to lower the standard and allow younger people to drink to lower underage drinking. thats like the "no student left behind" bs where they lower the difficulty of the class so that everyone can pass. im sorry if your kid slacks off and you dont make them do their homework. they can flunk the class and repeat it. but thats a different thread.

and i know that 21 isnt a magical age, i can honestly give you more people over the age of 21 that are worse when it comes to alcohol than those under or at that age.

but i regress to the screwing up their lives part. i have paperwork from 5 years ago in my pif for failing to comply to standards (my hair touched my ears). it cost me BTZ when i was up for it and has cost me a few other positions thruout my career, regardless of qualifications. now imagine how bad it would be on my pif if it were something more severe. ive got a friend in the military that has an A15, he's married with children and was forced to move back into the dorms (restricted to base), additional duty, and demotion. what did he do? he unknowingly provided alcohol to a minor. he was having a party at his house and some "guy" showed up with a fake id and said he was legal, that "guy" ended up driving back to base and got in a wreck, killed himself and 2 others. I did happen to drive by the accident the following morning after i got off work heading to my friends house, by the time i got there the SP's were already at his house putting him into cuffs. but i guess if we had lowered the drinking age, my buddy wouldnt have been punished... so i guess im for it now....:seesaw:


like i said before tho, if the "buzz" about drinking could be eliminated, i would have no qualms about lowering the age. but all i can imagine is a bunch of 18-20 yr olds (and probably even more younger than that who could pass for 18 with a fake id) all doing their "i can drink, i need to drink as much as i can to prove im not a pu$$y" thing. and i know, not everyone will do that, but there will be enough, and i can guarantee you that the number of alcohol/vehicle incidents will rise. but we wont have as much underage drinking to worry about, so i guess thats good. isnt that the point? to reduce the number of underage alcohol related incidents?

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

im a maintainer as well (AMC=Alcoholics Moving Cargo), and ive watched too many people get hurt or ruin their lives (military or civilian) for drinking underage. the solution isnt to lower the standard and allow younger people to drink to lower underage drinking. thats like the "no student left behind" bs where they lower the difficulty of the class so that everyone can pass. im sorry if your kid slacks off and you dont make them do their homework. they can flunk the class and repeat it. but thats a different thread.

and i know that 21 isnt a magical age, i can honestly give you more people over the age of 21 that are worse when it comes to alcohol than those under or at that age.

but i regress to the screwing up their lives part. i have paperwork from 5 years ago in my pif for failing to comply to standards (my hair touched my ears). it cost me BTZ when i was up for it and has cost me a few other positions thruout my career, regardless of qualifications. now imagine how bad it would be on my pif if it were something more severe. ive got a friend in the military that has an A15, he's married with children and was forced to move back into the dorms (restricted to base), additional duty, and demotion. what did he do? he unknowingly provided alcohol to a minor. he was having a party at his house and some "guy" showed up with a fake id and said he was legal, that "guy" ended up driving back to base and got in a wreck, killed himself and 2 others. I did happen to drive by the accident the following morning after i got off work heading to my friends house, by the time i got there the SP's were already at his house putting him into cuffs. but i guess if we had lowered the drinking age, my buddy wouldnt have been punished... so i guess im for it now....:seesaw:


like i said before tho, if the "buzz" about drinking could be eliminated, i would have no qualms about lowering the age. but all i can imagine is a bunch of 18-20 yr olds (and probably even more younger than that who could pass for 18 with a fake id) all doing their "i can drink, i need to drink as much as i can to prove im not a pu$$y" thing. and i know, not everyone will do that, but there will be enough, and i can guarantee you that the number of alcohol/vehicle incidents will rise. but we wont have as much underage drinking to worry about, so i guess thats good. isnt that the point? to reduce the number of underage alcohol related incidents?

you can recover from an A15. one of the best chiefs I know had one when he was an airman. and shouldn't the paperwork for your hair be removed by now? hell if I was your supervisor I would have it removed. take it you haven't pcsed before. that stuff doesn't follow you. . .

the point is if we make it lower the sooner people will just accept it as another beverage option. granted you will still have those people that abuse it and you always will. those same people will abuse it weather they are 18 or 30. and those people that can't control their habits that influence their job performance should be taken care of (first try to educate them what adapt is, and then if that doesn't fix it kick them out). one reason I think the af should have had a pt test before I ever came in. . .

there should be privileges to serving your country and giving back to society. granted there are a few (AAFES no tax, gym, some discounts from retailers etc) but I believe it's just not right to say you can die for your country but you better not drink.


btw I got a feeling I'm either not explaining myself good enough or in the end we'll just have to agree to disagree. not trying to argue just debate this subject.

[SyN]

If you really want to know how it would be with the age limit of 18 vs 21 to drink alcohol.. Get the statistics from Foregin countries and compare them to the USA's statistics.

I'm 24.. I drank underage but guess what? I NEVER drove. I would go to a party and if I drank I stayed until I was sober or just stayed the night. Not all kids underage are stupid! Not all Adults are smart! It goes both ways.

Hell I'm military and there are DUI's all the time from those above the drinking age, ranging from 21 to well above the age limit. There is also underage as well but I think majority of the time there busted at a party or busted past out in the passenger seat or back seats from Gate Guards on Base.

Advantage for the Military people though.. if you want to drink that badly.. Put down Overseas Bases and you'll be able to drink with no problems if you get stationed overseas.

I could care less either way to be honest.. Kids underage will continue drinking until the world ends.. Even if the age is lowered to 18.. there will still be underage drinking. It will never go away.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by boxmonkeyracing

you can recover from an A15. one of the best chiefs I know had one when he was an airman. and shouldn't the paperwork for your hair be removed by now? hell if I was your supervisor I would have it removed. take it you haven't pcsed before. that stuff doesn't follow you. . .

the point is if we make it lower the sooner people will just accept it as another beverage option. granted you will still have those people that abuse it and you always will. those same people will abuse it weather they are 18 or 30. and those people that can't control their habits that influence their job performance should be taken care of (first try to educate them what adapt is, and then if that doesn't fix it kick them out). one reason I think the af should have had a pt test before I ever came in. . .

there should be privileges to serving your country and giving back to society. granted there are a few (AAFES no tax, gym, some discounts from retailers etc) but I believe it's just not right to say you can die for your country but you better not drink.


btw I got a feeling I'm either not explaining myself good enough or in the end we'll just have to agree to disagree. not trying to argue just debate this subject.

no, you're explaining yourself fine. and honestly I could go either way on the subject. if it does get lowered, i hope and pray that it does get accepted as just another beverage option. i just have lost a lot of respect for todays youth. tho a lot are ok, too many are being dragged down by lowered education standards, the media and nearly everything else that is going on around them. (remember the 7 year old who stole his grandmothers car cus he wanted to do "hood rat stuff"?)

and for the military part, i still say that just because you can be taught how to do a trade doesnt mean you can be taught to handle yourself.







now if you want, i could switch my views and post some damn good reasons as to why it should be passed...:seesaw:

[Jamestwilliams]

The US should do the same as European countries have the drinking age lower than the driving age. That teaches people to respect alcohol before they learn to drive. Do you realize that the countries with the strictist laws regarding prohibition of alcohol have the highest incidenses of alcoholism and alcohol related fatalities. That's why Australia liberalised their drinking laws, allowing the bars to only be open for a few hours caused binge drinking and higher incidenses of drunk driving. People actually drank less over a longer period of time once they allowed bars to be open longer. Here in British Columbia they have started allowing bars to be open until 4am instead of 2am which spreads out the people leaving the bars and has greatly reduced the number of fatalities and duis. Prohibition never works it is a failing of society to think that it (society) should determine the life and choices of the individual.

I would like to add to my previous post that the people on this forum who support the camaro should see where I am coming from, there are those in society who would tell you what car to drive, prohibition of vehicle choice is no different than prohibition of alcohol.

[Iroczlover]

Was listening to the news yesterday while driving around, & they were talking about the Beng drinking of Young women & how its killing them.

It is truely sad to see or even hear that young folks have to go out & prove themselves like that.


I truely believe that as a Sociaty we have Failed our Children & it didnt start with my generation or my parents, it started my Grandparents generation when they took out pray in schools & when they started taking away the rights of the parents to punish our children.

[Bumble Bee '77]

Originally Posted by dvnt88

I agree with you as the drivers in Portland are pretty bad for the same things you mentioned. I've driven in Chicago for years and thought they sucked for driving skills until I moved to Portland. ")

HEY!!




I drive just fine thank you.

[DntWrryBeHappy21]

meh i dont care i dont like alcohol anyway

[Iroczlover]

Originally Posted by dvnt88

I agree with you as the drivers in Portland are pretty bad for the same things you mentioned. I've driven in Chicago for years and thought they sucked for driving skills until I moved to Portland. ")

Try driving in seattle in the rain lol.

[BowtieGuy]

My stance on alcoholic consumption is the same with many topics. Before you are allowed to buy alcohol, use the internet, obtain your driver's license, vote, own a gun or reproduce, you should be forced to take an intelligence/common sense test from a certified Idiot Detecting professional.