04-24-2018, 03:49 PM | #15 | ||
Drives: 2010 CGM 2SS/RS LS3 Swapped A6 Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Posts: 4,575
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Can any of the pros chime in here?
Assume cam swap was never the intention in this scenario. This is a unique example since most people just go full cam swap if they have to pull the heads. Question: Let's say I had an AFM lifter go bad. But I did NOT want to replace it with another AFM lifter. I simply want to swap out and replace with 16 all new LS7 lifters. My intention was never to cam swap, only to replace the lifters with something more reliable. I would also be doing a full AFM/DOD delete at this point and changing to new springs, irrelevant which type at this point, as that's another can of worms. Is the stock L99 VVT cam still useable at this point? Will it work fine with a DOD delete and LS7 lifters only? Or would I need to change it out for a VVT only cam (VVT minus the DOD) Because if the cam is still useable, this member can do the DOD delete, including LS7 lifter upgrade, springs, hardware, etc - and just put his stock cam back in. This would keep him exactly with what he wants. Quote:
What I don't understand is why he would need to run such stiff springs for a nearly stock cam. That is unnecessary and, like you said, would require maintenance every 25k or so....for a stock-ish cam. What's the point in that? Wouldn't this be the perfect build for a premium beehive upgrade rather than super stiff dual springs? Quote:
Myself, my L99 has 122k miles and I already feel like I am on borrowed time with the stock lifters.
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2010 CGM Camaro 2SS LS3 Swapped A6 - GPI LS3 SS1 .647/.638, (224/237, 112 +4, 7º overlap) on CamMotion 8620 core, BTR Platinum .660" Dual Spring kit w/titanium retainers, CHE bronze trunnion upgrade, stock heads milled @ .015, Melling HV 10296 oil pump, TSP 1-7/8" long tube headers (W/Catless Off-road Pipes), Corsa Xtreme 3" Catback, GPI Ported/Rod Mod Intake, Stage 2 Ported Throttle Body, Vararam OTR CAI, Mike Norris Gen 2 catch can + GM 1LE clean side separator, 160º thermostat - Megan Racing adjustable coilovers (lowered 1.75"), MRR M017 10/11" wheels-Tuned by Ryan @ GPI
Last edited by InFiD3ViL; 04-24-2018 at 04:31 PM. Reason: more info |
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04-24-2018, 04:57 PM | #16 | |
Drives: 2013 Camaro with a Nova body Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: San Diego
Posts: 49
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Quote:
I also called up Comp cams again and they said cam phaser limiter required. They also stated that I could get the cam I was interested in custom made with a 117 LSA. Something to think about. Called up GPI and they confirmed anything over .550 lift needs to limit the cam phaser or interference may happen. They too stated that they have a cam that was less than the SS1 that might fit my needs. They were going to let me know of a custom grind that may work for my goal. |
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04-24-2018, 05:05 PM | #17 | |
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Drives: Camaro and Sierra Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Virginia
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Quote:
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04-24-2018, 05:14 PM | #18 | |
Drives: 2013 Camaro with a Nova body Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: San Diego
Posts: 49
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Quote:
Yes its for reliability. This engine is going to be used a lot. 2000+ miles a month and I don't want to deal with lifters that has a high failure rate in the engine. This engine has 55,000 miles and I don't even want to chance pulling the heads and doing all that its needed after its installed in my car. I prefer to do it now while its sitting in the Camaro subframe on the floor. The cam I am looking at has a higher lift. But it is a baby cam by the standards of most cams people get. Because of this higher lift, the springs that are currently in the L99 engines would probably valve float in higher rpm. The max lift of the L99 factory cam is .500. So you can expect that the max lift that the spring may handle would be in the .525-.550 range. The cam I am looking at, despite it being small, has a slightly higher lift than the Stock LS3 cam. That's why I was interested in better springs. I used the LS3 cam as the model to find a VVT cam replacement and that is how I came up with the Comp cams Camshaft. LS3 specs = 204/211 duration. .551/.525 Lift 117* lobe separation angle. Comp cam = 210/224 duration .556/.568 Lift 114* Lobe separation angle. L99 specs = 195/201 duration .500/.492 Lift 115* Lobe separation angle. So as you can see, the LS3 cam is what I looked at as a model to find a comparable cam. Why the LS3? Because its a factory camshaft with great idle characteristics and it has good power. So I thought why not keep VVT, which is beneficial, and have the LS3 cam specs. Almost like have my cake and eat it too. From my research, you cant just shut off AFM and ride with the stock cam and stock AFM lifters. Its best, in a reliability standpoint, to take it all off the engine. |
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04-24-2018, 05:29 PM | #19 |
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Location: Lehigh Valley, PA
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I’m confused over the 25k miles comment. So ANY new cam will need the lifters/springs serviced every 25k mile’s??
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04-24-2018, 07:22 PM | #20 |
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Drives: Camaro and Sierra Join Date: Jul 2012
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Lifters will be fine 99.9% time at 25k miles and further. Springs are recommended to be replaced at 25k for high lift cams.
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04-24-2018, 09:36 PM | #21 |
Drives: 2010 CGM 2SS/RS LS3 Swapped A6 Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Posts: 4,575
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I have never heard of that for lifters, have for the stiffer springs.
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2010 CGM Camaro 2SS LS3 Swapped A6 - GPI LS3 SS1 .647/.638, (224/237, 112 +4, 7º overlap) on CamMotion 8620 core, BTR Platinum .660" Dual Spring kit w/titanium retainers, CHE bronze trunnion upgrade, stock heads milled @ .015, Melling HV 10296 oil pump, TSP 1-7/8" long tube headers (W/Catless Off-road Pipes), Corsa Xtreme 3" Catback, GPI Ported/Rod Mod Intake, Stage 2 Ported Throttle Body, Vararam OTR CAI, Mike Norris Gen 2 catch can + GM 1LE clean side separator, 160º thermostat - Megan Racing adjustable coilovers (lowered 1.75"), MRR M017 10/11" wheels-Tuned by Ryan @ GPI
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04-24-2018, 10:30 PM | #22 |
Angewendet Ingenieur
Drives: 14 Camaro ZL1 Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 401
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The lifter logic makes sense but at the same time there will be other risks to address. Also the VVT is not exact science; through proper tuning (which is required for DOD delete) there is enhanced flexibility, modeling, and the ability to smooth out transitions. Taking a stock L99 log and apply it in modeling then it becomes clear that perhaps VVT isn’t so efficient in a stock state.
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04-25-2018, 08:20 AM | #23 |
Drives: 2010 Inferno Orange 2SS/RS Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Clermont, IN
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I'm still confused. Correct me if I'm wrong....but aren't you simply describing an LS3 conversion? Which sounds like the easiest, safest option.
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04-25-2018, 09:58 AM | #24 |
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Drives: 2010 SS / 1967 Camaro Join Date: May 2009
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Go with GPI SS1, has a good small lope. Go on Youtube for videos. Also makes 440rwhp.
I been dailying their VVT SS3 for a few years, LS7 lifters. The phase shifter thing is a not a big deal to install.
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04-25-2018, 01:22 PM | #25 | |
Drives: 2013 Camaro with a Nova body Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: San Diego
Posts: 49
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Quote:
The L99 cam has their lobes cut differently for cylinders 1,4,6,7. I would like a VVT cam with all lobes cut the same. When I refer to LS3, I'm not referring to the LS3 conversion. Just the camshaft specs. My ideal cam would be a VVT cam that was close to the LS3 specs. I'm sure that it would not be exactly the same specification in terms of duration, lift and Lobe separation because of the VVT system and how it changes valve timing in its normal engineered operation. But my ideal scenario would have it idle smooth and quiet. And if I was able to use LS3 springs, even better. Everyone is stuck on performance and more power. For me, the engine with stock power is good n plenty. |
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04-25-2018, 02:14 PM | #26 | |
Drives: 2010 CGM 2SS/RS LS3 Swapped A6 Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Posts: 4,575
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Quote:
With an LS3 conversion, he would lose VVT entirely. What he wants is basically an LS3 conversion, except keeping the VVT. It is exactly what the VVT cammed guys do, EXCEPT he wants to stay with a stock VVT cam. But there is confusion whether or not the stock VVT cam is useable since it was also designed for an engine with active DOD.
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2010 CGM Camaro 2SS LS3 Swapped A6 - GPI LS3 SS1 .647/.638, (224/237, 112 +4, 7º overlap) on CamMotion 8620 core, BTR Platinum .660" Dual Spring kit w/titanium retainers, CHE bronze trunnion upgrade, stock heads milled @ .015, Melling HV 10296 oil pump, TSP 1-7/8" long tube headers (W/Catless Off-road Pipes), Corsa Xtreme 3" Catback, GPI Ported/Rod Mod Intake, Stage 2 Ported Throttle Body, Vararam OTR CAI, Mike Norris Gen 2 catch can + GM 1LE clean side separator, 160º thermostat - Megan Racing adjustable coilovers (lowered 1.75"), MRR M017 10/11" wheels-Tuned by Ryan @ GPI
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04-25-2018, 02:22 PM | #27 | |
Drives: 2013 Camaro with a Nova body Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: San Diego
Posts: 49
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Quote:
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04-25-2018, 02:23 PM | #28 | |
Drives: 2010 CGM 2SS/RS LS3 Swapped A6 Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Posts: 4,575
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Quote:
As I said earlier, this is a unique example. Almost anyone that takes the heads off of an L99 is going to swap the cam, simple as that. Most don't want to go through all that work without the reward at the end...the power. Tran2la, when you get this job done, PLEASE update this thread or post a new one. I would love to see how it comes out.
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2010 CGM Camaro 2SS LS3 Swapped A6 - GPI LS3 SS1 .647/.638, (224/237, 112 +4, 7º overlap) on CamMotion 8620 core, BTR Platinum .660" Dual Spring kit w/titanium retainers, CHE bronze trunnion upgrade, stock heads milled @ .015, Melling HV 10296 oil pump, TSP 1-7/8" long tube headers (W/Catless Off-road Pipes), Corsa Xtreme 3" Catback, GPI Ported/Rod Mod Intake, Stage 2 Ported Throttle Body, Vararam OTR CAI, Mike Norris Gen 2 catch can + GM 1LE clean side separator, 160º thermostat - Megan Racing adjustable coilovers (lowered 1.75"), MRR M017 10/11" wheels-Tuned by Ryan @ GPI
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