[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The base/tech GT350 didn’t make sense either. A non-track, track car. Would you have to disclose that that when it’s time to sell? How awkward.

it might not have made sense to you but allowing people to have a lower priced option to still own a Shelby with the looks, drivetrain and good street handling or a version more about comfort was not a bad idea but Ford should have made it clear that it was not a trackable option.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Ford advertised the 350 as "The most track capable Mustang ever." Not the track pack one. Or only the R. The 350. Had I bought one and had it overheat I would have been PISSED. That is why there is a lawsuit over it. My SS has never overheated. Ever. Not on a track and damn sure not on a highway.

I would also never expect a car with Cup 2s to not be able to be tracked. For street use the PP1 tires are better. What exactly is the point of the PP2? Cool wheels and ridiculous tires to talk about at cars and coffee?

If you bought one, and you chose one of the packages without coolers with the intentions of tracking, then you are an idiot. Plain and simple. No rocket science degree needed.

[SDG23]

If GM had offered the SS 1LE in two versions, one with track capability and one with just the looks of a 1LE, but nowhere near the ability and then someone bought the latter thinking it was good for track use, sure blame could be laid on the customer for buying it ignorantly, but wouldn't it be a bit of a douche bag move on GM's part to even do such a thing? It's not so much picking on Ford as it is seeing they've done some shady stuff, and now we can add the PP2 to that list.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Ford advertised the 350 as "The most track capable Mustang ever." Not the track pack one. Or only the R. The 350. Had I bought one and had it overheat I would have been PISSED. That is why there is a lawsuit over it. My SS has never overheated. Ever. Not on a track and damn sure not on a highway.

I would also never expect a car with Cup 2s to not be able to be tracked. For street use the PP1 tires are better. What exactly is the point of the PP2? Cool wheels and ridiculous tires to talk about at cars and coffee?

So you buy a car just on the marketing and not do research on it?

It would be like you loving the first or second gen iPod due to Apple’s marketing and buying it with no research to discover it was Mac only with you being mad at Apple.

Ford deserves the crap with PP2. But the GT350 had the coolers optional and people should have done their research and not spend $50K just because they had to have that car.

[whiteboyblues2001]

I have no problem with Ford making a FPC mustang, and having a street version and a track version. My issue comes in when they called it the GT350. GT350 = track car. Call the base car a GT300, and the one with coolers a GT350 or something.

Call it something else. That's false advertising. And let's not forget that the regular mustang WAS able to go on a track without overheating. In fact, the base and tech pack GT350's were the ONLY Mustangs that overheat on a track.

Sure, do your research first, but that's just a joke. I will blame the consumer, sure, but that doesn't let Ford off the hook. Two wrongs don't make a right. They are BOTH wrong.

And for the PP2, the point is, if it's a street car, then put better street tires on it. If it's a track car, put the coolers on it. I don't care either way, but the parts are in conflict with each other. That's like putting the most off road capable tires on a truck, and then making it with a suspension that you can't take off road and it will break down after a hundred yards. What's the point???

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

So you buy a car just on the marketing and not do research on it?

It would be like you loving the first or second gen iPod due to Apple’s marketing and buying it with no research to discover it was Mac only with you being mad at Apple.

Ford deserves the crap with PP2. But the GT350 had the coolers optional and people should have done their research and not spend $50K just because they had to have that car.

No I do my research. But a lot of people do not. The base 350 and the PP2 should come with coolers from the start. Enough people agree with me that they filed a lawsuit.

Again what is the point of the PP2? "Spirited driving"? "Canyon Carving?" the PP1 can do that.

Ford deserves crap for the entire S550 generation.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

If you bought one, and you chose one of the packages without coolers with the intentions of tracking, then you are an idiot. Plain and simple. No rocket science degree needed.

Here is the problem: In 2016 the track pack Shelby was completely stripped down. The car had less options on it than a Focus. For people who wanted a pure track car only the R was the car for that.

People bought the 350 with the tech pack under the assumption that it could do some amateur tracking and it had a few options to make regular driving more enjoyable. Several fires later and Ford finally did what they should have done to start and made the track pack standard.

Now the PP2 is overheating. So it is no better than the PP1 or base model after 15 minutes. Ridiculous. Yet every single SS can run all day lap after lap and pass after pass until it runs out of fuel. Embarrassing for Ford. (Or it should be)

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

No I do my research. But a lot of people do not. The base 350 and the PP2 should come with coolers from the start. Enough people agree with me that they filed a lawsuit.

Again what is the point of the PP2? "Spirited driving"? "Canyon Carving?" the PP1 can do that.

Ford deserves crap for the entire S550 generation.

You can file a lawsuit for anything. And this country is way too litigation happy. PP2 should come with coolers I agree( or again at least the option for them). I have no issue with the GT350 to come without coolers. I would probably be one to buy it without coolers as I wouldn't have the intention of tracking it and would want it for the looks and the Voodoo V8.



I don't see the point in trying to make Ford liable for peoples inability to do some basic research. I bet one of the first questions that will be asked to these customers in the lawsuit will be did they go on Ford.com to do do a build your own and notice the track package and if yes, why didn't they get it. What Ford said about the GT350 being the most track capable Mustang ever isn't false advertising unless they said with standard equipment which of the ads I have seen, they did not.

[torqueaddict]

I see the GT350 as the 1LE of the Ford world (or their attempt to match it ). It should come with coolers at a minimum IMO. Since straight line performance isn't much better than the lower end GTs, I'd consider it overkill for street use. With that said, if I was a die hard Ford fan in the market, it's the only Mustang I'd be looking at right now out of the bunch for one main reason - the tranny. It comes with a Tremec. The engine is problematic, but it's better than having 2 things to worry about. The GT350R should have been the Zl1 competition.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by SDG23

If GM had offered the SS 1LE in two versions, one with track capability and one with just the looks of a 1LE, but nowhere near the ability and then someone bought the latter thinking it was good for track use, sure blame could be laid on the customer for buying it ignorantly, but wouldn't it be a bit of a douche bag move on GM's part to even do such a thing? It's not so much picking on Ford as it is seeing they've done some shady stuff, and now we can add the PP2 to that list.

apples to oranges because 1LE is The Camaro track package... Gt350 is a seperate model altogether and it was made available with 2 lvls of track packages.

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

I have no problem with Ford making a FPC mustang, and having a street version and a track version. My issue comes in when they called it the GT350. GT350 = track car. Call the base car a GT300, and the one with coolers a GT350 or something.

Call it something else. That's false advertising. And let's not forget that the regular mustang WAS able to go on a track without overheating. In fact, the base and tech pack GT350's were the ONLY Mustangs that overheat on a track.

Sure, do your research first, but that's just a joke. I will blame the consumer, sure, but that doesn't let Ford off the hook. Two wrongs don't make a right. They are BOTH wrong.

And for the PP2, the point is, if it's a street car, then put better street tires on it. If it's a track car, put the coolers on it. I don't care either way, but the parts are in conflict with each other. That's like putting the most off road capable tires on a truck, and then making it with a suspension that you can't take off road and it will break down after a hundred yards. What's the point???

Gt350 was a track car in 65-67? After that it’s just been a Mustang sub model or at times an option package.

[J_MaherAMG]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Here's an idea. And it's not a jab at the Mustang. But, is it possible that maybe, just maybe, the S550 is not capable of keeping up with the 6th Gen Camaro on the same price level? Is it possible that in order to get the same handling, they would have to creep into Shelby price territory? And could it be possible that the 6th Gen chassis is just soo good that the Mustang cannot compete? Or, more likely, Ford is not able to make a GT that can beat the SS 1LE while NOT beating the Shelby as well. Maybe the margin between the SS 1LE and the Shelby is soo close that if the GT hits that spot they will take out the Shelby too. Whatever the case is, I think it is overwhelmingly obvious that this round goes to the Camaro. But keep in mind that the Mustang was on top for quite a while in the 5th Gen.

Absolutely, it is very difficult for Ford to offer the same level of performance for the same price because of the technology sharing between the Camaro and Corvette/Cadillac. Camaro benefits big time from that sharing; it doesn't have as much R&D cost to make up for in comparison and is why we see features like rev-matching, standard coolers, standard larger brakes, etc. on the Camaro because they have more room to play with in terms of adding in extras while still reaching their desired margins.

[Spartan268]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

They already offer a car that will match or beat the 1LE in the 350 albeit at a higher cost. The PP2 does not need to beat the 1LE in Fords eyes because that would have it stepping on the 350’s toes. You all want to compare the 350 to the ZL1 and that’s fine but Ford has another car coming to fill that slot in the 500 so their agenda is different that what you’all think it should be.

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

apples to oranges because 1LE is The Camaro track package... Gt350 is a seperate model altogether and it was made available with 2 lvls of track packages.


Gt350 was a track car in 65-67? After that it’s just been a Mustang sub model or at times an option package.

Weren't you just saying that the GT350 is to match or beat the 1LE? Now you're saying it's apples to oranges? Come on your trolling has been inconsistent lately. You should include maybe an asterisks to GT350* so we can understand what is Apples to Apples*.



*Track pack only models

[J_MaherAMG]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

it might not have made sense to you but allowing people to have a lower priced option to still own a Shelby with the looks, drivetrain and good street handling or a version more about comfort was not a bad idea but Ford should have made it clear that it was not a trackable option.

Have you ever seen any manufacturer market what a new product of theirs CAN'T do? Yeah, it'll never happen

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

I have no problem with Ford making a FPC mustang, and having a street version and a track version. My issue comes in when they called it the GT350. GT350 = track car. Call the base car a GT300, and the one with coolers a GT350 or something.

Call it something else. That's false advertising. And let's not forget that the regular mustang WAS able to go on a track without overheating. In fact, the base and tech pack GT350's were the ONLY Mustangs that overheat on a track.

Sure, do your research first, but that's just a joke. I will blame the consumer, sure, but that doesn't let Ford off the hook. Two wrongs don't make a right. They are BOTH wrong.

And for the PP2, the point is, if it's a street car, then put better street tires on it. If it's a track car, put the coolers on it. I don't care either way, but the parts are in conflict with each other. That's like putting the most off road capable tires on a truck, and then making it with a suspension that you can't take off road and it will break down after a hundred yards. What's the point???

You're partly right, and I see where you're coming from. But comparing the 350 and GT is very different. For starters you're looking at an engine with over 90hp more, with a significantly higher redline. Naturally, physics dictates that combination is going to produce more heat.

We know the GT can be driven on track without hitting limp mode, but the question is whether or not it is actually hitting temperatures that WOULD be conducive to limp mode, IF it were capable of monitoring those temperatures in the first place. My belief is that the trans especially is hitting temps that would cause limp mode, but that the coding in the 350 is more protective to avoid damaging the more expensive drive train components.

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Here is the problem: In 2016 the track pack Shelby was completely stripped down. The car had less options on it than a Focus. For people who wanted a pure track car only the R was the car for that.

People bought the 350 with the tech pack under the assumption that it could do some amateur tracking and it had a few options to make regular driving more enjoyable. Several fires later and Ford finally did what they should have done to start and made the track pack standard.

Now the PP2 is overheating. So it is no better than the PP1 or base model after 15 minutes. Ridiculous. Yet every single SS can run all day lap after lap and pass after pass until it runs out of fuel. Embarrassing for Ford. (Or it should be)

I completely agree with the fact that coolers should have been standard from the beginning. But, perhaps the bean counters would not have approved the project if they could not introduce the car as is coming in at a hair under $50K in the beginning? We'll never know.

Also curious, what makes people think the R is a track only car? I have an R. There is not a single track in the province where I live. Yet somehow I still manage to enjoy the hell out of it every time I go for a drive! I've spent considerable time in a 2015 Corvette, my father's, and the normal suspension mode in my R feels very similar to the "Sport" setting in the Vette. Honestly very livable and never once have I felt that the ride was too rough or firm. (This coming from someone who lives in NL where the roads are like swiss cheese )

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

I see the GT350 as the 1LE of the Ford world (or their attempt to match it ). It should come with coolers at a minimum IMO. Since straight line performance isn't much better than the lower end GTs, I'd consider it overkill for street use. With that said, if I was a die hard Ford fan in the market, it's the only Mustang I'd be looking at right now out of the bunch for one main reason - the tranny. It comes with a Tremec. The engine is problematic, but it's better than having 2 things to worry about. The GT350R should have been the Zl1 competition.

I'll be 100% honest, the fact that the new A10 Mustang can put down a better 1/4 mile time than my R doesn't bother me in the slightest. When I was shopping for cars, the other primary car I was interested in was a Porsche GT4 or a Boxster Spyder, so straight line is definitely not my priority.

That being said, I did bring my R to the local 1/8th mile a couple of times just for shits and giggles. Best time was an 8.35 at almost 93mph. I think my 60' was something like 2.205. By far and away the hardest car to launch that I've ever driven. Combine a very tall first gear (52mph) with an 8250rpm redline, and a powerband where torque doesn't peak until 4750rpms... anything lower than 4K and it bogs due to a relative lack of low end torque, anything higher than 4K and it wants to roast the tires to smithereens lol it really isn't suited well for drag racing at all, but the trap speeds and top end show that it is still a faster (seat of the pants car) than the GT, even though the ET may not be that impressive.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

I'll be 100% honest, the fact that the new A10 Mustang can put down a better 1/4 mile time than my R doesn't bother me in the slightest. When I was shopping for cars, the other primary car I was interested in was a Porsche GT4 or a Boxster Spyder, so straight line is definitely not my priority.

That being said, I did bring my R to the local 1/8th mile a couple of times just for shits and giggles. Best time was an 8.35 at almost 93mph. I think my 60' was something like 2.205. By far and away the hardest car to launch that I've ever driven. Combine a very tall first gear (52mph) with an 8250rpm redline, and a powerband where torque doesn't peak until 4750rpms... anything lower than 4K and it bogs due to a relative lack of low end torque, anything higher than 4K and it wants to roast the tires to smithereens lol it really isn't suited well for drag racing at all, but the trap speeds and top end show that it is still a faster (seat of the pants car) than the GT, even though the ET may not be that impressive.

You can say that and it's cool I guess. But I would not like it if the SS was faster than my ZL1 or a SRT8 or R/T could beat my Hellcat. That is just a slap in the face. But I'll say it again. The 6th Gen SS is soo close to the both of the Shelbys that the only way for the GT to beat it at anything is to actually beat the Shelby too.

This whole mess with coolers...well if they did add coolers then they would have effectively made another GT350. Which would beg the question, why did they put those expensive ass CF rims and that expensive ass FPC engine in the GT350 just to match it's performance without any of that in the same generation and same year? Ford HAD to snip the GT PP2 some how. And they had to keep costs down. And they probably didn't want to warranty another car that would be tracked like the Shelbys are.