Solid Subframe Bushings

[I call it Vera]

Originally Posted by gen=5

Wow solid ,that's really going all out..I do not think i would go that route, but if your main concern is building a track car,then go for it....

I just do not see it as a upgrade for a DD ,as it will cause road noise,and it will get worse as the car gets older....been there done that before...Also it can effect your warranty on your power train,and suspension...
I have seen components crack over time because of having solid bushing in for long periods of time,and no the dealership did not cover the parts under the warranty...
I always believe poly is the best way to go....

I'm an engineer by education, and used to be by trade.
Sometimes you engineer a part to be 'weak', to bend, to have 'give' for a number of reasons. This can include savings other parts from death and destruction . . . in essence, the design engineer is choosing which part will fail.

I find it plausible that the design engineer desired that level of 'give' in the part, as he/she is making design trade-offs . . . making one part weaker in order to 'save' the far more expensive part(s).

Agreed that this may be good for a track car, but not on my list for my DD.

[jessrayo]

Originally Posted by I call it Vera

I'm an engineer by education, and used to be by trade.
Sometimes you engineer a part to be 'weak', to bend, to have 'give' for a number of reasons. This can include savings other parts from death and destruction . . . in essence, the design engineer is choosing which part will fail.

I find it plausible that the design engineer desired that level of 'give' in the part, as he/she is making design trade-offs . . . making one part weaker in order to 'save' the far more expensive part(s).

Agreed that this may be good for a track car, but not on my list for my DD.

I think the stock urthane or whatever material it is, improves ride comfort and reduces sound. My car is loud in big suspension hits like railroad tracks but it hooks and corners. If you do any racing at all, I suspect it will improve your performance. The videos always show movement at the bushing on hard acceleration which will affect corner exit and drag racing launches.

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by I call it Vera

I'm an engineer by education, and used to be by trade.
Sometimes you engineer a part to be 'weak', to bend, to have 'give' for a number of reasons. This can include savings other parts from death and destruction . . . in essence, the design engineer is choosing which part will fail.

I find it plausible that the design engineer desired that level of 'give' in the part, as he/she is making design trade-offs . . . making one part weaker in order to 'save' the far more expensive part(s).

Agreed that this may be good for a track car, but not on my list for my DD.

what most people are not factoring in when they look at this on paper is the vett's have had solid subframe bushings for a wile they are still drivable I have owned a couple I found them very drivable. the are noiser than a lexus though ha ha. the are still safe.

I tihnk the chassis sturctuer is designed to absorb inpact. I work in mechanical design I do not see these bushings as a safty item at all.

there are still tons of points of isolation on this suspension design. So even when you go solid every point of the suspension still has a bushing that connects to the subframe.

which is why this car is so crappy with wheel hop there is flex everywhere.

So if you gong to look at it like an engineer look at the whole system like an engineer.

whatching the pfadt video's is very enlighting the flex is outragous in the stock condition.

the 90 durometer BMR's are a great trade off for people who think the solid is too far though and they are cheaper.


ohh and pfadt is out of business so if you want there's better find some on the ground quick.

[TBone]

First, yes, sadly Pfadt and Pedders are out of business.

Second, BMR's have a 70 durometer reading.

Prothane=88

Whiteline(who used to make Pedders)=95 and ,IMHO,is your best bet especially if you plan to do ANY autoX or HPDE events.

Opinion
If you plan on staying on the street, Drag Racing and Under 600 RWHP then by all mean go BMR.

Personally, I would choose the Prothane after that RWHP limit or if you what a more solid bushing.
/End Opinion

There is another thing folks need to think about when you choose your bushings and that is the metal sleeve the Camaro actually sits in. The piece that comes down from the Camaro is actually conical in shape and x inches long. In the stock bushing the sleeve it sits in is conical also to "marry" them together and it rests on a shelf inside that sleeve. The Prothane and Whiteline sleeves are similar in design. The BMR is a straight through cylinder sleeve.

|\\//|=Whiteline and Prothane ||\/||=BMR

I have been in cars that had the Pfadt solid style bushing and damn were they loud. I have a car with bushings that are 95 durometer Poly and they are not loud and do a damn fine job. I only mean to try and give you folks the facts as they stand today. My opinions just kinda leaked their way in there.

T.

[ZL1-V]

My opinion is it is not that loud. It's my car and I'm the only one usually in it so no problems here. I have to really pay attention and listen for the "noise". The moment you go around a corner you will be smiling.

[DKT]

I still question the use of a solid material in the cradle mounts.

Coming from the the IRS in the Cobras. I used Ploy on the cradle mounts, Aluminum in the differential mounts, and derlin on the control arms. It was dead quiet, solid, and would not wheel hop.

[13ZL1BLove]

Originally Posted by hognutz

don't forget to look at ADM as well. $689 vs $499 they are both 6061-T6


I will something here before summer.

there is really no way for this to increase wheelhop it can only help.

wheelhop is flex and rebound.

1. diff bushings
2. subframe bushings
3. toe bushings
5. trailing arm bushings
6. lower control arm bushings
7. upper control arm bushings

=wheelhop

as you can se there are tons of points that can flex. I was told that doing the upper conrol amr bush wile you have the cradle down is a good idea.

I have been told that going too high on the diff bushing in durometer can induce gear whine if you setup is off a bit and the factor bushings hide this in alot of cases so you won't alway no you have it till you do it.

I did trailing amrs and toe rods like a dummy first. I should have done rear subframe and uppter control arms bushings I think.

Are the ones on ADM website for all Camaros or just the SS model ??

[13ZL1BLove]

Is anyone or know anyone selling the Pfadt bushings?

[I call it Vera]

Originally Posted by TBone

First, yes, sadly Pfadt and Pedders are out of business.

What happened? I hear that brand ALL the TIME here.

[zl1bro]

Still possible to get Pedders bushings from somewhere? Didn't realize they'd gone out of business.. damn

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by 13ZL1BLove

Are the ones on ADM website for all Camaros or just the SS model ??

they fit all models to my understanding. the rear subframe is the same. I know poeple are running them on ZL1's

it's interensting to hear the perspectives some peopel act like sound is horrible and some act like it is no big deal.

[BMR Sales]

BMR has the 70 durometer "Pro" Bushings or we also have the Delrin "Race" Bushings which is more comparable to the solid bushings in performance. Some more good news:

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344278

[13ZL1BLove]

My exhaust is so loud anyways I probably wouldn't even notice the noise coming from the solid bushings.

[wakespeak]

Keep in mind that video uses a 2010 SS. The cradle bushings for all Camaros were improved across the line in late '11 to get rid of the voids in the 2010 version. The newer part is solid rubber material. It would really be interesting to see a video with a 2012 or up model. Also since the Z28 is so track dedicated, I wonder what bushings they use on it?