91 vs non ethanol unleaded question

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum...however one of our gas station has started carrying non-ethanol unleaded gas with no octane rating. I have heard from others that the gas is awesome, and particularly in my friends 14 charger 5.7L hemi R/T, it gets better response, mpg and car is happier.

I am curious as to your guys thoughts and responses before I try putting it in my car, as our cars are rated for 91 or better. After doing some research it COULD be 87 octane, but nothing is disclosed. This car has never seen anything other than 91, which is as good as it gets in durango.

Thanks in advance
2014 2SS, RS M6, NPP, CAI

[DvKillar]

I think there is a law about displaying the Octane rating. maybe part of the "CAFE" act. I wouldn't put it in my car without full disclosure!

[sherob]

There's a Sunoco that carries 90 in Durango, everything else is 87/88.

SUNOCO 90 Grandview Store 970-382-2692 28870 Us Hwy 160 E

https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CO

[pyroguy]

Ethanol free gas is GREAT! I always fill my car up with ethanol free before putting it away for the winter so I don't get the fuel system gummed up during the winter. On normal driving times, it gets an extra mile or two per gallon. Try it, you won't regret it.

[Reaper85]

Shell 91 is ethanol free up here. Works great as far as I can tell.

[Russell James]

The ethanol free is for small engines. Octane is more important for your car. Up to 15% is meaningless if the car is designed for up to E15. However it will screw up the carb on small engines. All those carb’d Chinese weedwhackers never got updated to be E15 compatible.

Originally Posted by sherob

There's a Sunoco that carries 90 in Durango, everything else is 87/88.

SUNOCO 90 Grandview Store 970-382-2692 28870 Us Hwy 160 E

https://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=CO

Thanks so much, that clarifies the brennan is selling 87 octane...Ill totally be looking into Sunoco!!!

what is the difference? I get no alcohol, but what does it do for the engine?

You Guys Rock!

[CamaroFred]

Originally Posted by firedruish

Thanks so much, that clarifies the brennan is selling 87 octane...Ill totally be looking into Sunoco!!!

what is the difference? I get no alcohol, but what does it do for the engine?

You Guys Rock!

Alcohol is used as an anti-knock agent so engines can be manufactured with higher compression ratios resulting in more power and improved MPGs.

If you search you will find that back in the 1920s most scientists and engineers recommended ethanol over lead. Not only because it is less expensive but also because lead is poisonous (which we have finally admitted).

The only reason lead was approved by the US was because William DuPont, at that time 1/3 owner of General Motors, owned lead factories and persuaded the engineers at GM to advocate lead in the hearings.

Thousands of lead factories workers died during the following years (sometimes hundreds in a month) and children of survivors sired children often born with deformities and brain damage who died at young ages.

But it made DuPont a billionaire and he shared the wealth with the legislators and it made the public stupid. It took nearly 50 years before people woke up and realized the damage imposed on the public.

And now we have Tesla...

[94z28inok]

Partial Threadjack - I was just there Sept 10th through 13th and noticed 91 was scarce, was glad I was in the Tahoe for that trip. I try to run 91 in it also as it does get 2 to 3 more mpg versus when I run 87 in it. Have you checked out the new $ General in Bayfield? I run the crew that set up all the fixtures.

[CamaroFred]

Originally Posted by Russell James

The ethanol free is for small engines. Octane is more important for your car. Up to 15% is meaningless if the car is designed for up to E15. However it will screw up the carb on small engines. All those carb’d Chinese weedwhackers never got updated to be E15 compatible.

The only time ethanol will screw up the carburetors and fuel lines is when you leave them full of fuel. The same is true with any fuel.

Use the shutoff valve and let the sucker run out of fuel instead of using the kill switch. If you are going to let it sit for more than a week or two. Summer heat accelerates the degradation.

I have a 10 year old generator I might spark up 2-3 times a year and by running it out of fuel before packing it up it starts every time.

[Russell James]

Originally Posted by CamaroFred

The only time ethanol will screw up the carburetors and fuel lines is when you leave them full of fuel. The same is true with any fuel.

Use the shutoff valve and let the sucker run out of fuel instead of using the kill switch. If you are going to let it sit for more than a week or two. Summer heat accelerates the degradation.

I have a 10 year old generator I might spark up 2-3 times a year and by running it out of fuel before packing it up it starts every time.

Not every small engine has a problem with alcohol. I have a 30 yr old snowblower, have never touched the carb. I have a two year old Chinese weedwacker that sears has replaced the carb twice under warranty. They want me to use the canned sealed gas they sell. I said ... how about making your products match the fuel supply.

A lot of gas stations near me have set up pumps for alcohol free small engine gas. If your car was designed to handle up to 15% it would be meaningless to use. Better to use the octane it was intended for. We have plenty of 93 around here that is alcohol free. It’s more of a pollution thing. The counties with higher pollution get mandated to use 10-15% ethanol.

The mpg diff is nill. If 15% of the fuel gets 30% less mpgs...the end result is a nit so small how many red lights you hit will have a bigger input. When people are checking mpgs they will subconsciously scew the results with their right foot to get the result they expected.

Originally Posted by 94z28inok

Partial Threadjack - I was just there Sept 10th through 13th and noticed 91 was scarce, was glad I was in the Tahoe for that trip. I try to run 91 in it also as it does get 2 to 3 more mpg versus when I run 87 in it. Have you checked out the new $ General in Bayfield? I run the crew that set up all the fixtures.

91 is scarce and our gas stations holding tanks are scary. The Conoco in bayfield has ruined more than one farm truck with a contaminated diesel holding tank. We have a couple of others that are long standing gas stations that I wont go to.

The new $ General is a beautiful big store...was just there over the weekend. Customer service, now that would be a perk...but thats not your department.

through me a line next time you are in town, if you have your car and we can go for a drive. I can also tell you the safer places to fuel.

[Gasoholic]

Petroleum actually has lubricative qualities that alcohol does not. Alcohol actually reduces lubrication. So things that come in contact with the fuel, like valves and guides wear faster. You can actually see it when you take an engine apart.
Alcohol is also hard on rubber and tends to dry out and rot rubber seals.
If you are running an old model car, especially if its running OE internal parts you are better off avoiding alcohol.
Late models engines are built with newer technology and the seals, valves, guides etc.. are able to withstand alcohol.
The lead thing was more than just for increasing octane. Lead was required to protect internal engine components such as valve seats. It was a big problem when the lead free fuel took over. Older model engines required lead additive or internal engine damage would result.
As for fuel going bad during storage, alcohol enhanced or not, fuel will still go bad if stored for long periods.

[christianchevell]

I would skip the non ethanol if its not higher octane with ethanol being more over the 100 octane rating bringing some gasolines up more you would be most likely dropping some power and on a different fuel table, sure you would get more mileage, but usually its the freak now and more expensive and for landscape and other equipment etc..... I am old I quess, I remember getting Ethyl which basically is leaded gas..not so good for you but good for anti knock and a cushion for the pushing so to speak being kind to valves etc....I also remember 19 cent hamburgers though too...LOL

People who do go racing like gasoline they can add their own octane boosters too rather than just ethanol and you have no deterioration of rubber or gaskets or sludge etc from the harmful effects of our forced Corn diet...... and its trashed lot of small equipment.....and people use products to keep the oxygen content of the gasoline from going away or revive it ;and that's where Varnish is the product of gas left forever in a tank. Around here the stuff is more like $4.00 a gallon for ethanol free but I think they boost it to airplane standards more in the 100-110 octane area for the price .... there are lots of people who do fly around here.