People don't believe that the LS3 can make over 500 crank with a cam and add-ons - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Moto-Mojo · 02-13-2020, 08:06 PM

I’m thinkin that 500 HP at the crank is like that 11th inch she never really experiences with us when compared to RWHP! Just sayin...

Chris49066SS · 02-13-2020, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teeth

Mine is the L99 to LS3 conversion, is the compression really that different? I thought the huge difference was in the valve train.

Compression ratios are different, since the L99 pistons have valve reliefs, resulting in a lower SCR in the L99.

L99 10.4:1
LS3 10.7:1

The LS3 valves are hollow stem and lighter, and the L99 has solid, heavier valves, which are a bit more work for a valvetrain to turn higher RPM.

The camshafts are different, with the LS3 being more aggressive than the L99, and being a 3 bolt with no phaser involved, with different lifters instead of those crappy AFM lifters.

And the heads are different. 821 castings vs 823.

Its just a different setup altogether that the typical "LS3 conversions" don't fully address. The LS3 is arguably the much better engine because its already set up better from the get go than the L99. I have an L99 and am happy with its results for the time being.

InFiD3ViL · 02-13-2020, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris49066SS

Compression ratios are different, since the L99 pistons have valve reliefs, resulting in a lower SCR in the L99.

L99 10.4:1
LS3 10.7:1

The LS3 valves are hollow stem and lighter, and the L99 has solid, heavier valves, which are a bit more work for a valvetrain to turn higher RPM.

The camshafts are different, with the LS3 being more aggressive than the L99, and being a 3 bolt with no phaser involved, with different lifters instead of those crappy AFM lifters.

And the heads are different. 821 castings vs 823.

Its just a different setup altogether that the typical "LS3 conversions" don't fully address. The LS3 is arguably the much better engine because its already set up better from the get go than the L99. I have an L99 and am happy with its results for the time being.

Not that this matters in the slightest in your post, but the stock LS3 camshaft is a single bolt. Although I probably misunderstood you.

Other than the valves (and casting stamp lol), are the bare 823 castings identical to the 821's? Are port and chamber volumes the same? I sold my 823 castings for $550 and kind of regret it now.

Chris49066SS · 02-13-2020, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InFiD3ViL

Not that this matters in the slightest in your post, but the stock LS3 camshaft is a single bolt. Although I probably misunderstood you.

Other than the valves (and casting stamp lol), are the bare 823 castings identical to the 821's? Are port and chamber volumes the same? I sold my 823 castings for $550 and kind of regret it now.

Ah yeah I got ahead of myself and thought of the 3 bolt aftermarket cams. As for the port and chamber volumes, I wish Martin from Frankenstein would chime in

Aqua Blue RS/SS · 02-13-2020, 09:45 PM

I’ve read on the ls1 site in a few different threads that the LS3 heads have 3 angle seats and 823’s only have 2 angle seats. Also I’ve seen some say the 821s have a slightly different internal finish to them. I can’t confirm this firsthand only parroting information along.

weSS1LEy · 02-14-2020, 02:52 AM

My 470 rwhp is about 550 crank. Was hoping for 600. Where can I find another 50 hp? Heads, tod mod I guess. Or just toss a Maggie on lol

Black_SS10 · 02-14-2020, 05:23 AM

Don't be so worried about numbers.

BAH2SS · 02-14-2020, 08:35 AM

Crabk HP is easily achievable with simple bolt ons.
WHP you'll need a huge cam. The highest I've seen is 477 whp with CAI, 1 7/8 lt headers and MS4 cam. Am sure that electronic water pump, smaller under drive pully will do magic. But is it 25 whp magic?

Dynoed using 91 oct.

Vegas Bound · 02-14-2020, 09:27 AM

I made over 500 crank on a 350 4 bolt back in the 70s. A LS should be able to do it now.

Rich2010 · 02-14-2020, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teeth

No, I did mean crank. People are just that dumb sometimes, lol.

With the calculation, it has to be making around 530rwhp

I think you have your terminology backwards. The dyno chart you posted is your RWHP at 445, and should be close to 500 at the crank/flywheel on an engine dyno.

Greenhornet2 · 02-14-2020, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich2010

I think you have your terminology backwards. The dyno chart you posted is your RWHP at 445, and should be close to 500 at the crank/flywheel on an engine dyno.

His terminology is correct it sounds like someone is telling him he isn't making 500bhp, his argument to them is that he was at 445WHP which means his bhp is over 500. with 15% drivetrain loss that would put you around 510bhp. at 20% drivetrain loss that would put you at 534bhp. People get too wrapped up in numbers though its is widely variable and doesn't always translate into real world driving acceleration like you would think.

Rich2010 · 02-15-2020, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greenhornet2

His terminology is correct it sounds like someone is telling him he isn't making 500bhp, his argument to them is that he was at 445WHP which means his bhp is over 500. with 15% drivetrain loss that would put you around 510bhp. at 20% drivetrain loss that would put you at 534bhp. People get too wrapped up in numbers though its is widely variable and doesn't always translate into real world driving acceleration like you would think.

I understand drivetrain losses and the difference between rwhp and bhp. The OP posted a dyno chart of his 445whp pull and said it should equate to 530whp, which doesn’t make sense. Maybe he understands the difference, maybe he doesn’t. Maybe it was a typo maybe it wasn’t.

I agree though, numbers are just numbers and people care wayyyyy too much about them.

Vegas Bound · 02-15-2020, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich2010

I understand drivetrain losses and the difference between rwhp and bhp. The OP posted a dyno chart of his 445whp pull and said it should equate to 530whp, which doesn’t make sense. Maybe he understands the difference, maybe he doesn’t. Maybe it was a typo maybe it wasn’t.

I agree though, numbers are just numbers and people care wayyyyy too much about them.

The only thing that matters is ET.

olblue75 · 02-15-2020, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vegas Bound

The only thing that matters is ET.

Not necessarily true depends on your discipline of racing.

02-13-2020, 08:06 PM	#15
Moto-Mojo Fast Cars and Old Guitars Drives: 2015 2SS RS (L99, baby!) Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: N. CA Posts: 3,974	I’m thinkin that 500 HP at the crank is like that 11th inch she never really experiences with us when compared to RWHP! Just sayin... __________________ “I don’t want to belong to any club that would have me as a member.” - Groucho Marx

02-13-2020, 09:45 PM	#19
Aqua Blue RS/SS Drives: ABM #93 Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Lotaburger Posts: 2,695	I’ve read on the ls1 site in a few different threads that the LS3 heads have 3 angle seats and 823’s only have 2 angle seats. Also I’ve seen some say the 821s have a slightly different internal finish to them. I can’t confirm this firsthand only parroting information along. __________________ ABM #2399 2SS/RS:SOLD ABM #93 2SS/RS Black Rally stripes, Titanium Interior 4,000 miles: GM GFX side skirts and diffuser waiting on paint, GM dovetail, GM heritage, RPI ZL1 style splitter. ‘87 IROC-Z Iroc blue. all original unmolested with 50K miles.

02-14-2020, 02:52 AM	#20
weSS1LEy weSS1LEy Drives: 2015 camaro 2ss/rs/1le Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Kelowna Posts: 510	My 470 rwhp is about 550 crank. Was hoping for 600. Where can I find another 50 hp? Heads, tod mod I guess. Or just toss a Maggie on lol __________________ Rotofab, arh no cats, atak, elite cc, 94 octane tune, Mobil 1, phastek scoop, custom cam 230/243 .621 .604 114+4, related cam kit stuff. 470/435 rwhp/rwtq

02-14-2020, 05:23 AM	#21
Black_SS10 SomeguyK Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: FL Posts: 1,947	Don't be so worried about numbers. __________________ TMS 427, Dart iron Block, Forged assembly, Frankenstien heads, AGP TT 62/62 BB turbo's, AGP/Fore triple fuel system, Tilton clutch, Holley 1 7/8 shorties, Technostalgia tail lights,Oracle, Aeroforce, MGW shifter,Flowmaster, Pegasus subframe bushings,BMR trailing & toe arms,Z28 UCA bushings,Zl1 rear sway bar,Prothane,BMR,Goodridge brake lines,Ridetech HQ coilovers,3.91,Trutrac,billet caps,DSS axles,HE offest,built TR6060,1LE diffuser,Havoc spoiler,SSclones,20in MRR 017, Pirelli P Zero, Nitto NT555RII More to come.

02-14-2020, 08:35 AM	#22
BAH2SS Stigs Bahraini Cousin Drives: 2015 Camaro 2SS 1LE Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Bahrain Posts: 222 View My Garage	Crabk HP is easily achievable with simple bolt ons. WHP you'll need a huge cam. The highest I've seen is 477 whp with CAI, 1 7/8 lt headers and MS4 cam. Am sure that electronic water pump, smaller under drive pully will do magic. But is it 25 whp magic? Dynoed using 91 oct. __________________ 2015 CAMARO 1LE

02-14-2020, 09:27 AM	#23
Vegas Bound Account Suspended Drives: 2013 Sparkly Red One Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: Hospitality State Posts: 2,558	I made over 500 crank on a 350 4 bolt back in the 70s. A LS should be able to do it now.