Tuner will VOID warranty

[FLYNNZL1]

I have a Diablo Tune, and have returned my car to stock before going to the dealer many times now with no problems, when will treads like these just die. I still have not seen on this site a tread where someone had a true "first" person issue with a tune and a dealer under normal conditions. Correct me if I'm wrong. Please no examples like, my brother, or a friend, please don't wast your time.

I am not talking about people who abuse their cars that happen to have tunes.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

The two of you are full of it and you know it.

After searching to no end, neither of you have ever expressed any concern to any other users regarding using a Superchips tool, nor have you posted 'be careful, adding that blower will void your warranty', I could go on and on.

I get PMs from members here wondering why we get beat up so much by the admins, thats nice.

You guys really ought to get off your high horse and find access to the Private Sponsor Forum on LS1tech and see how the rest of your advertiser community feels about your abysmal moderation. They're over there begging the Admins to create a new site to compete with you.

BTW, where are the Admins in this?
Looks like a couple rogue moderators to me....

Because those other companies don't claim their tunes can't be seen by GM louder than you. Maybe you should read the thread again so you better understand the topic.

Personally - I'm tired of going around and around about this. I make no apologies for the stance I share with Milk' on this. If we were so against you, we would've locked this thread and left it at you have not proof of your claims; however, we have to bang our heads against the wall with you suggestive statements regarding you, attacking us. You're the only one with the problem here. We've been clear on our stance and what it would take to resolve the situation. However, you have not successfully proven your claims, independently. We've stated many times once that happens, we'll back off; until then, don't complain. If you change your statement, this can go to rest, because I don't think you're going to find a statement by either of us regarding the quality of your services or products.

I'm going to say this only one more time: My concern (regarding this subject)is the protection of members who are concerned with keeping their warranties valid. I don't think a member who adds a supercharger, or the like, expects to keep all of their warranty, for obvious reasons. Claims were made that GM can't see reflashes (which is a morality issue I'm not even going into) but no one has proven GM can't see it. Once independent tests show the tunes are indeed hidden, I'll humbly withdraw my efforts. I have nothing to gain by this. If these attacks persist, perhaps this thread should be locked, because this activity has nothing to do with the topic. Also - I've frequented the site you mentioned in the past, for a long time, and we run a lot tighter ship, IMVHO. That's the choice of the Admins' here; if I'm directed otherwise, I'll change. But make no mistake - Sponsors are held to the same standards as Members and Moderators.

[Mike@DS]

But you have no proof either way of anything, making you an OUTSIDE observer. Period.

You guys are regurgitating second and third hand information all over the internet, perpetuating the long held theory by many in this industry that internet is the BEST place to get MISINFORMATION.

I have a Tech2. I have the GDS. I have a StarScan, a DRB3, a Mongoose, a Cardaq, and many, many more development tools at our disposal used to make sure we dont make claims we cant back up.

You have no engineering staff to counter my claims, so until you do, you should stay out if it. Its funny., none of the HPtuners employees have chimed in to say this is not possible...nor have any of the other tuner companies. Makes you think, just maybe, we all know some things YOU dont.

[FLYNNZL1]

If the mods lock a tread because they simply disagree about something technical like this, and think they know what's best for everyone, sounds like a Facebook all over again. I'll leave this forum if I must be forced into reading what's best for me by mis guided posters. I hope that is a empty threat.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Flynnaz

I have a Diablo Tune, and have returned my car to stock before going to the dealer many times now with no problems, when will treads like these just die. I still have not seen on this site a tread where someone had a true "first" person issue with a tune and a dealer under normal conditions. Correct me if I'm wrong. Please no examples like, my brother, or a friend, please don't wast your time.

I am not talking about people who abuse their cars that happen to have tunes.

I'm sure many people are wondering the same thing. Please, let me ask this: Have you brought your car in for service that required diagnostics related to the PCM or do you know that your files were uploaded to GM? I ask because unless a dealer thinks there's a problem, or unless the car is reported by the customer to have a problem, I don't believe most dealers will randomly check a customer's car. It takes time to do this, and a dealership is no different than any other business: time is money. I know when I worked at the dealership, we didn't do that (and to be up front, it was a GMC dealer, so we didn't carry performance cars or anything like that), but my point is that it takes time for the tech' and other personnel to do things like this, and unless they're getting paid for it, I find it's doubtful they do it without a reason.

I do hope people comment, because that's the reason for this thread. Please chime in. Right now, we have more documentation of the worst case senario.

[DSteck]

Originally Posted by Flynnaz

I have a Diablo Tune, and have returned my car to stock before going to the dealer many times now with no problems, when will treads like these just die. I still have not seen on this site a tread where someone had a true "first" person issue with a tune and a dealer under normal conditions. Correct me if I'm wrong. Please no examples like, my brother, or a friend, please don't wast your time.

I am not talking about people who abuse their cars that happen to have tunes.

The dealer isn't going to randomly check, which is 99.99% of the reason you don't have an issue. Bring your car in with a blown engine, and then see what they do.

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

Its funny., none of the HPtuners employees have chimed in to say this is not possible...nor have any of the other tuner companies.

Actually, HP Tuners has claimed concretely there's no way to defeat the CVNs, but have never chimed in on the flash counters because they don't even want the liability of being tied to warranty fraud.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

But you have no proof either way of anything, making you an OUTSIDE observer. Period.

You guys are regurgitating second and third hand information all over the internet, perpetuating the long held theory by many in this industry that internet is the BEST place to get MISINFORMATION.

I have a Tech2. I have the GDS. I have a StarScan, a DRB3, a Mongoose, a Cardaq, and many, many more development tools at our disposal used to make sure we dont make claims we cant back up.

You have no engineering staff to counter my claims, so until you do, you should stay out if it. Its funny., none of the HPtuners employees have chimed in to say this is not possible...nor have any of the other tuner companies. Makes you think, just maybe, we all know some things YOU dont.

Please allow me to ask a few questions: What equipment do you have that's the equivalent of what GM uses? Do you have someone at GM that has read the files from a car that has used your product and reported they didn't see any problems or discrepancies? What are your comments on this from GM: #09-06-04-026B: Identifying Non-GM (Aftermarket) Engine and Transmission Calibrations for V8 Gas Engines Using Tech 2 or Global Diagnostic System (GDS) - (Apr 7, 2010) (http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79922)?

Originally Posted by Flynnaz

If the mods lock a tread because they simply disagree about something technical like this, and think they know what's best for everyone, sounds like a Facebook all over again. I'll leave this forum if I must be forced into reading what's best for me by mis guided posters. I hope that is a empty threat.

And that's exactly why it hasn't been locked. As of now, we have more proof that GM has the ability to see the tunes, but we don't know for sure because we (well, I) haven't seen a post from a member who's taken the car in, had the files sent to GM, and received a response that they have or have not seen discrepancies. It's not like I don't want the chance offered, but to make claims and not show a complete review process, through GM, I just don't have faith yet. But I AM getting tired of reading the same post and posting the same responses.

[Mike@DS]

Originally Posted by DSteck

Actually, HP Tuners has claimed concretely there's no way to defeat the CVNs, but have never chimed in on the flash counters because they don't even want the liability of being tied to warranty fraud.

I recall a post from them on LS1tech where I seem to recall them saying they could indeed defeat the CVN check, but that they chose not to for the same reason you mentioned.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

But you have no proof either way of anything, making you an OUTSIDE observer. Period.

You guys are regurgitating second and third hand information all over the internet, perpetuating the long held theory by many in this industry that internet is the BEST place to get MISINFORMATION.

I have a Tech2. I have the GDS. I have a StarScan, a DRB3, a Mongoose, a Cardaq, and many, many more development tools at our disposal used to make sure we dont make claims we cant back up.

You have no engineering staff to counter my claims, so until you do, you should stay out if it. Its funny., none of the HPtuners employees have chimed in to say this is not possible...nor have any of the other tuner companies. Makes you think, just maybe, we all know some things YOU dont.

Bottom Line,

If you use any aftermarket tune, ANY, you as the vehicle owner are in violation of the warranty agreement you signed with GM when you bought the car. Period.

So, IF the dealer or GM catches the tune, either previous or current, they can deny any related warranty claim.

Period.

Does this mean that they will always catch the tune? No. Are there many dealers out there who are perfectly comfortable with working on a tuned car? yes.

Here is the difference between you and just about every other product vendor here.

No one is trying to Hide their product from GM. Header companies can't hide headers. Nor would they ever suggest such an idea. Can you imagine a header company saying, "our headers won't void your warranty!... Just put the stock manifolds back on and you are Good! GM will never know."

What a load of crap. Your whole business model is the claim that you can trick GM when the consumer knowingly modified their car in such a way that will void the warranty.

If anyone mods their car with ANYTHING you run the risk of having any related repairs denied as a warranty claim... Tune or no tune.. headers... superchargers.... What ever... It doesn't matter...

GM set the warranty terms based on their calculations of what the normal operation conditions should be.

Your tune modifies those conditions, as does any mod. I know full well that 99 times out of 100 your tune did no real damage. But GM has no way to know what damage if any is done by the mod...

If you want people to lie to GM about what they've done to their cars, then maybe this isn't the place for you to sell your product.

Whatever we "think we know" about GM's ability to detect old or new tunes is irrelevant....

The point is you're marketing approach is to tell people they can trick GM by hiding your tune.....

That is an unethical approach to marketing your product.

And quite frankly we are sick of it.

[Dr Jkel]

Amen. As a noob to this mod thing it is deceiving to think that you would do this. My car has been modded and I made a choice before the first bolt was turned and excepted the outcome if anything happens.

Is it possible that the mods I did will void my warranty, YES YES YES, but heres the kicker. Let's say a faulty piston breaks and wrecks my motor, since I have had the cam changed we will never know the part was the problem and all GM will do is say you modded, we're sorry. To be honest I can not blame them what so ever.

To say you can "Trick" them, well let's just say I wouldn't buy from you. Karma is a Bi*** and when you do dirt, dirt comes back to you.

I do not recall any other tuner telling me they could hide their tune, in fact each one told me that once they did it that I could kiss my warranty good bye.

So think about it, but don't sell wolf tickets, because the first one who has an engine problem, no matter who tunes it will absolutely post it here. Don't be THAT guy.

BTW I am only pushing 450rwhp, so I am not really worried, plus I do not dog my car, I ride slow so EVERYONE can see this amazing car GM and the Camaro Team has built. JMHO

[Chrisrp454]

The internet, funny thing it can tell you a lot. Lets see I do a little goggleing and low and behold, it is not just C5 saying this about tunes.
Corvette guys, Mustang guys, GTO Guys, Pickup guys, Dodge guys......
and so on. So you say its just 2 mods at C5 is kinda an out right lie.
Gee what else is not the truth???

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

The two of you are full of it and you know it.

After searching to no end, neither of you have ever expressed any concern to any other users regarding using a Superchips tool, nor have you posted 'be careful, adding that blower will void your warranty', I could go on and on.

I get PMs from members here wondering why we get beat up so much by the admins, thats nice.

You guys really ought to get off your high horse and find access to the Private Sponsor Forum on LS1tech and see how the rest of your advertiser community feels about your abysmal moderation. They're over there begging the Admins to create a new site to compete with you.

BTW, where are the Admins in this?
Looks like a couple rogue moderators to me....

[FLYNNZL1]

I had my rear main seal replaced, it was leaking way before I put the tune on. My dealer fixed it no questions asked, they even said how sweet my Airaid cai was. I guess I'm lucky to have a common sence dealer. If I was racing or using my car in a bad manner I would take full reasonably if something were to happen.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Flynnaz

I had my rear main seal replaced, it was leaking way before I put the tune on. My dealer fixed it no questions asked, they even said how sweet my Airaid cai was. I guess I'm lucky to have a common sence dealer. If I was racing or using my car in a bad manner I would take full reasonably if something were to happen.

That right there is my point exactly.

Some dealers are smart enough to know what is related and what isn't.

But it is a chance you take as the consumer of any aftermarket mod.

[Dr Jkel]

Originally Posted by Flynnaz

I had my rear main seal replaced, it was leaking way before I put the tune on. My dealer fixed it no questions asked, they even said how sweet my Airaid cai was. I guess I'm lucky to have a common sence dealer. If I was racing or using my car in a bad manner I would take full reasonably if something were to happen.

You bring up a very good point. USAGE. I have had my car a year and have 6400 miles. When I have taken it to the dealer they already know how anal I am about it, and that is just about keeping it clean, not to mention racing.

They KNOW me and what I do with the car and hopefully they know that if something happens to look just past the obvious and deny my claim, but this is one dealership.

I can say this about warranty, tunes, mods or whatever you want to all it. Just be honest. If you are trying to deceive it will come back to haunt you. If you are trying to run low 11's in the 1/4 what do you expect. Got to have a little common sense.