Motor Trend compares the ZL1 to the Boss 302 Laguna Seca

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by Shurenuff

That other thread about magazine racers getting too caught up in the numbers is spot on IMO. Like I said in my first reply in this thread on the first page, it's not the numbers that really impress me from this review (even though a nearly 2.5 second victory is significant on such a short track), it's the manor in which this car went about achieving those numbers.

There's a reason why Motortrend brought the Boss LS instead of the 2012 GT500 for this test on the track. Even though the GT500 may be marginally faster than it on certain tracks, almost all the professional reviews regard the Boss LS as the best track day weapon of choice, the best Mustang ever.

It's not purely about the numbers, which car has the fastest 0-60, quarter mile time, or fastest lap on the track (all of which I'm sure the ZL1 will more than hold its own against the boys from Dearborn). To me, and what many are disregarding, it's about what is the best complete package and the most enjoyable and rewarding drivers car. That's what makes the Boss 302 LS so highly regarded by those that have actually driven one on the track and not just looked up numbers posted in a magazine. And that's what makes this review about the ZL1 so impressive.

In regards to that last point, Motortrend does a great job of summing up what makes a car truley special beyond the numbers. They define what a drivers car is in the article about the Boss 302 LS posted above:

ABOUT BEST DRIVER'S CAR

"What makes a great driver's car? Is it brute performance? Or gut-wrenching grip? What about balance and finesse, and the quality of the interaction between man and machine? We argue that a great driver's car has the chassis and powertrain and brakes and steering that enable the enthusiast driver to confidently explore the limits of its performance envelope, as well as his own. On top of all that, the best one also contains an X factor, a little something extra that elevates the breed.


Best Driver's Car is not a race. Numbers aren't everything. To get the fullest picture possible for each competing vehicle, we perform our normal battery of performance testing and real-world driving, and racetrack performance. Yet, while on-track performance is just one piece of a larger puzzle, it's without question the most fun. Join us each day as we introduce the contenders, with track results and impressions by master driver Randy Pobst, all leading up to the crowning of the 2011 Motor Trend Best Driver's Car."


That just about sums up what its all about perfectly IMO. The fact that the ZL1 seemed to clearly win out in this regard (as described by a respected pro driver no less) against Ford's best is what makes me most excited about this review, numbers be damned.

The ZL1 does indeed look to be the best drivers car in the segment per this review. That should be the focus for those of us who will be fortunate enough to actually own and drive these machines, not just make comments based off of magazine numbers. It's why the Boss 302 LS is regarded as the best Mustang ever, and it's why the ZL1 will be regarded as the best Camaro ever.

Well written Shure, very nice post.

[eric n]

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...2_laguna_seca/

Mustang guy here saying OUTSTANDING job Chevy. The new ZL shows the LS Boss it's tail lights in a convincing manner while providing a more civil overall experience. Gotta love a CTS-V wrapped in muscle car skin. The gt500 will be an interesting match up as well, but will extra hp be enough with the Camaro's more sophistocated suspension???

Either way competition will improve the breed as it always has.

Before you Chevy guys start ragging the stang please remember I never ragged the Camaro when EVERY car magazine had the GT as a superior car to the SS. Again competition makes all things better.

Quoting the legend Stan Lee EXCELSIOR!

[Houston94vert]

Originally Posted by IcePick06

Right here bro, by the famed Mustang Biased fanboys at Motortrend (read down to Randy Pobst's post towards the end. I'm pretty sure the guys had the Performance package on the GT500 in their latest test.

Randy Pobst--"Felt pretty well-balanced. A little bit of body roll, but stick. Lord have mercy, it's better than the Shelby GT500 we tested a while back. Handled better than a Porsche Cayman."

http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...car_contender/

"Felt" is the key word. Lets see some lap times.

[Houston94vert]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

A quote someone put down when Motor Trend made a topic about how the 2012 Camaro ZL1 will fare against the 2013 Shelby GT500 now that we know the Camaro ZL1 is faster than the 2012 Mustang BOSS 302 Laguna Seca Edition. I wonder how true this is what this guy said.

Alright, alright already…here is a thought to ponder befor all you Ford Folks place too heavy a bet on on the Shelby GT 500 “Bad Boy” coming up in 2013. First of all, Road and Track Magazine did a road test on The 2011 Shelby GT 350 Mustang (versus a Hemi Challenger) with a whipple supercharged 624 horsepower, six speed tranny “full on track pack” weighing in at almost 4000 pounds and with all of that expensive and highly sought after Shelby equipment added onto this “track beast” (an 80K dollar beast no less) it still could only manage a 12.4 second @117 mph quater mile and a skidpad number of .99 g’s which is really quite good but….if you honestly compare the bad boy Shelby GT 350 to the Camaro ZL-1 you see that the Camaro (while heavier than the ‘Stang by almost 200 pounds) can still out perform the supercharged 624 hp Shelby 350 GT and my contention is that another 26 horsepower in the Shelby GT 500 at the same weight as the 350 Shelby still isn’t going to “blow the Camaro ZL-1 into the weeds”, at the drag strip or on the road course. At best (traction & suspension being an important factor here) the Shelby GT 500 might be more evenly matched and maybe pull a few “ticks” of a second at the dragstrip on the Camaro (more power and torque is always good) but at on the road courses…my money is still on the Camaro ZL-1 to give the Shelby GT 500 Mustang fits & one more thing, a lot depends on the right driver behind the wheel too. So, before you Ford Folks start to put all your eggs in one basket, consider that by the time the Shelby GT 500 is available to the public the Chevy Camaro engineer’s are not going to simply be “waiting for it” (the Shelby GT500) to arive and not have some trick up their sleeve. If you think that the current Camaro ZL-1 is stiuck with what you see now, rest assured that a few simple mods can push that superchared ZL-1 engine well into the horsepower range that the Shelby is reported to be producing. Personally I’m looking forward to seeing these two “Bad Boys” really get down and dirty on the street and on the track but like I said, Chevy is in this to battle to win and they are not going to simply “roll over and die” when the Shelby GT 500 shows it’s face in town. Think what you want, but I love seeing these two “Pony Cars” (yeah, right) go at it and knowing Chevrolet, be prepared for some more horsepower and torque coming in 2013 as they already have the suspension and chassis “down to a science”! Let the games begin!

You do realize the GT350 and Super Snakes are not ford offerings. They are simply tuner mustangs, like Roush and use to be Saleen.

If you want to argue this you might as well bring in the callaway camaro and hennessey camaro as well.

[garcmol]

Originally Posted by eric n

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...2_laguna_seca/

Mustang guy here saying OUTSTANDING job Chevy. The new ZL shows the LS Boss it's tail lights in a convincing manner while providing a more civil overall experience. Gotta love a CTS-V wrapped in muscle car skin. The gt500 will be an interesting match up as well, but will extra hp be enough with the Camaro's more sophistocated suspension???

Either way competition will improve the breed as it always has.

Before you Chevy guys start ragging the stang please remember I never ragged the Camaro when EVERY car magazine had the GT as a superior car to the SS. Again competition makes all things better.

Quoting the legend Stan Lee EXCELSIOR!

Absolutely! That's the fun part!

[BackinBlackSS/RS]

Originally Posted by eric n

I never ragged the Camaro when EVERY car magazine had the GT as a superior car to the SS.

Really, superior? LMFAO Stock for stock it's all about the driver. #Myth

[hognutz]

Originally Posted by nester7929

From MotorTrend:

Anyone will tell you that the problem with the previous Shelby GT500 wasn't a lack of power -- it was actually putting that power down to the ground. The previous GT500's performance numbers were often traction-limited, resulting in a 0-60 time not much better than the Mustang GT. To deal with this problem, SVT engineers revised the six-speed manual transmission's gearing in an effort to make the GT500's power more usable. SVT ditched the 3.55 final drive ratio for a 3.31 final drive, and then optimized every gear (except fourth) to better use the newfound torque. SVT further beefed up the drivetrain with a dual-disc clutch and carbon-fiber drive shaft.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz1jtEktBqH

much of this was done to improve its zero to 60 but that should help exit on the corner. which will help lap time but will 650hp people are fooling themsleves if they don't think ti will be a handful to drive around corners.

the current GT500 does not lap horrible but it does cost GS corvette money and has a hard time keeping up with them. my contention from the ford crowd is why does the Zl1 get bashed when it is faster, quicker, and handles better than the current GT500 which most ford fans hold in very high regaurd.

when the new gt500 comes out it will not best the Zl1 by much more than the Zl1 bests the current GT500 in 0-60 or 1/4 mile most likely.

So hear again why is the Zl1 such a pile. All I hear from alot fo the ford camp is like charlie browns mom talking. it is so much brand bias.

it will be interesting the current gt 500 to a gear change from 3.55 to 3.73 to lower is ET. now they have upped the horsepower and took the gearing int he other direction more like the Z06 or Zr1.

I for one thing the 2013 GT500 will be awesome as long as it does not cost 65k with the ajustable bilstien suspension system. Then it will be like the Z06 is for most. sweet car but hard to some up with the coin to buy a new one. everbody is asuming right now that it will be affordable like the Zl-1 was going to be 48k then came in at 55k. peoplle talk about the gt 500 being 55k but I think it will be 60k+ wich is hard on the wallet. I don't see any deals right away if it does hit its perfromnce targets.

to me the 2012 gt500, boss 302, grand sport vett, Zl-1 are basically poor mans perfromace car if you are looking at new cars. Used the Z06 is still where it is at too me if you can live with the downsides of the car.

[Deki]

Originally Posted by hognutz

my contention from the ford crowd is why does the Zl1 get bashed when it is faster, quicker, and handles better than the current GT500 which most ford fans hold in very high regaurd.

I don't think anybody is bashing the ZL1. It certainly is an amazing machine, and on more than one level. It's got the same personality that the M3 has had for ages, being a great car on the road, and equally great on the track.

Originally Posted by hognutz

I for one thing the 2013 GT500 will be awesome as long as it does not cost 65k with the ajustable bilstien suspension system. Then it will be like the Z06 is for most. sweet car but hard to some up with the coin to buy a new one. everbody is asuming right now that it will be affordable like the Zl-1 was going to be 48k then came in at 55k. peoplle talk about the gt 500 being 55k but I think it will be 60k+ wich is hard on the wallet. I don't see any deals right away if it does hit its perfromnce targets.

Looking at the fact the current GT500 costs 47k for a base, I highly doubt that the new one will go up in price by 8k in just one model year, especially looking at the fact it is not a major redesign.

[Nessal]

What's the difference between the Laguna Seca Boss and the regular Boss?

[SSmoked]

Originally Posted by Deki

I highly doubt that the new one will go up in price by 8k in just one model year, especially looking at the fact it is not a major redesign.

5.8L is new, the new suspension, the new brakes, the new gearing, the new track stuff, new cooling options, yea i expect the price to rocket up. remember ford is throwing around 650hp and 200mph u gotta pay to play

[eric n]

Originally Posted by BackinBlackSS/RS

Really, superior? LMFAO Stock for stock it's all about the driver. #Myth

Again I never said it was superior I said every magazine said it was superior in comparison tests. Now I only read Road and Track, Car and Driver, and Motor Trend. They are clearly the big 3. However I am open to new information. That said, all of them had the Mustang GT as the winner over the SS. This isn't up for debate, res ipsa loquitur. If you prefer the Camaro...GREAT it's an awesome car with a mean look and an amazing motor. I absolutely understand why someone may like it better. But, my statement stands. Look it up if you like.

Just like Motor Trend has made a clear statement that the new Super Camaro is a superior car when compared with the BOSS. I suspect that the other major magazines will agree as the zl looks like an AMAZING BEAST.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/co...ord-mustang-gt

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...n/viewall.html

OTHERS
http://www.insideline.com/ford/musta...camaro-ss.html

http://blogs.edmunds.com/karl/2010/0...ustang-gt.html

[garcmol]

Originally Posted by Nessal

What's the difference between the Laguna Seca Boss and the regular Boss?

Laguna Seca is a $7k upgrade that includes the following;

The Laguna Seca Package includes features to make your BOSS® 302 race-ready. The package includes such essentials as TORSEN® helical differential with 3.73:1 axle ratio, Gauge Package, unique rear springs and sway bar, race compound tires and other features to help you take the checkered flag.
*Front air splitter included in Laguna Seca Package is intended for race track use only and is not legal for on-street driving. May degrade crash performance and void vehicle warranty. Must be installed by customer.

Plus it's rear seat is deleted and an "X" cross brace is added back there.

[buzzy56]

Just received my march issue of Hot Rod Magazine.Interesting write up on the 2013 Shelby GT .Very impressive dyno numbers to say the least.Dumped out at 650 HP at 6,250 rpms & 670 HP at 7,000 Rpm redline.Don't know about you but this surely got my attention.Rather pricey at around $60,000.00 but sounds like you get a lot for your money!Don't get me wrong I am a chevy man thru & thru , but I love all the competition.Just like the good old sixties.Everybody competing,track & street.Can't beat it.

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by buzzy56

Just received my march issue of Hot Rod Magazine.Interesting write up on the 2013 Shelby GT .Very impressive dyno numbers to say the least.Dumped out at 650 HP at 6,250 rpms & 670 HP at 7,000 Rpm redline.Don't know about you but this surely got my attention.Rather pricey at around $60,000.00 but sounds like you get a lot for your money!Don't get me wrong I am a chevy man thru & thru , but I love all the competition.Just like the good old sixties.Everybody competing,track & street.Can't beat it.

the '13GT500 is going to be quite a surprise. I highly doubt it will start at $60k when the previous model started at <$50k base.