Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
dave@hennessey
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-09-2018, 08:24 PM   #17725
mlee
--->
 
mlee's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 Crush ZLE
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 33,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarrzz View Post
.


Well, that's subtle.


No, but it IS sexy ! Extremely hot!


__________________
.
mlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2018, 03:44 PM   #17726
mlee
--->
 
mlee's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 Crush ZLE
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 33,757


Well the ZR1 made some noise

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...tning-lap-2018
__________________
.
mlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2018, 01:12 PM   #17727
2cnd chance
Too Many Great Choices
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: Grand Sport/Z07
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A Mountain Road
Posts: 7,325
So This Is the Fix??

Not much better IMO. Until this Camaros have always been the more beautifully designed Muscle/Pony Car.
Attached Images
 
__________________
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2018, 02:17 PM   #17728
Number 3
Hail to the King baby!
 
Number 3's Avatar
 
Drives: '16 ATS 2.0T & '17 Buick LaCrose
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 10,447
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Not much better IMO. Until this Camaros have always been the more beautifully designed Muscle/Pony Car.
I think it's a bit better than what the 19 currently looks like, but I'm not sure this is a real improvement over the '16.

I'm guessing they are searching a bit. I have a hunch they went a little too far in the '16 styling one of those love it or hate it things.

I've seen clinic results for some cars that are very strongly polar. One in particular was the Dodge Ram vs the Silverado about 15 years ago. The Ram had HUGE marks for both Love and Hate. The Silverado was not nearly as strong in the Love, but had almost no Hate. I think the Gen6 may be a bit of this. I think to have broad appeal you just can't have anyone hating it. There are certainly a lot of people on Camaro5/6 that love the Gen6 styling, but there just seems to be a lack of sales supporting that.
__________________
"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley Link to Every Camaro photo I've taken in Hi-Resolution
Number 3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2018, 12:25 PM   #17729
2cnd chance
Too Many Great Choices
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: Grand Sport/Z07
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A Mountain Road
Posts: 7,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
I think it's a bit better than what the 19 currently looks like, but I'm not sure this is a real improvement over the '16.

I'm guessing they are searching a bit. I have a hunch they went a little too far in the '16 styling one of those love it or hate it things.

I've seen clinic results for some cars that are very strongly polar. One in particular was the Dodge Ram vs the Silverado about 15 years ago. The Ram had HUGE marks for both Love and Hate. The Silverado was not nearly as strong in the Love, but had almost no Hate. I think the Gen6 may be a bit of this. I think to have broad appeal you just can't have anyone hating it. There are certainly a lot of people on Camaro5/6 that love the Gen6 styling, but there just seems to be a lack of sales supporting that.
The Camaro was always the prettiest of the muscle/pony cars. I believe if they just adjust the pretty/aggressive percentage of the car’s looks that the Camaro will be on top again. It’s got everything else going for it.
__________________
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2018, 10:33 AM   #17730
Number 3
Hail to the King baby!
 
Number 3's Avatar
 
Drives: '16 ATS 2.0T & '17 Buick LaCrose
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 10,447
So GM has offered buy outs to 18,000 people with 12 years of service or more. No bump in age and service for people to retire early like GM has done for years and years. Just 6 months severance. A couple of thoughts.....


This indicates GM does not value loyal employees. They simply want a younger, cheaper work force. Not sure this falls into an age discrimination thing or not but there was a reason they picked 12 years of service. Anyone hired after 2001 (if I recall correctly) is on a defined benefit 401k only. No pension, no healthcare no early retirement supplement.


GM is clearly focusing on the future and being profitable. Does this allow for low volume low profit cars like the Camaro? They will have a LOT fewer employees to work on programs that don't generate profits now or a technology for the future.


GM may have put a lot of eggs in the EV basket in the out years. We've heard 20 something EVs by 2020. Without a rationale for forcing every OEM to have an EV future, GM may have played a big hand and about to lose the pot. You can't have invested BILLIONS of dollars in an EV future and not make money on them. This may be the underlying reason for this advance protective move.


The folks I know have had wildly varying responses to this from "maybe I'll retire" to "meh" to "holy crap, I wanted to work 3 to 5 more years I'm not near ready"


The deal is if they don't get the number of volunteers they will go find the voluntolds. I've heard anywhere from 20 to 25% for the targeted reductions.

With Ford quietly going through the same reductions and looking to partner VW for EV and Autonomous vehicles, it isn't boding well for the Big 2 and Fiat. Of course Fiat will just keep churning out RAM pickups (awesome product) and Jeep after Jeep after Jeep until the well runs dry.

Is this a slight bump or the first day of the future for the auto industry?
__________________
"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley Link to Every Camaro photo I've taken in Hi-Resolution

Last edited by Number 3; 11-03-2018 at 11:09 AM.
Number 3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2018, 11:15 AM   #17731
mlee
--->
 
mlee's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 Crush ZLE
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 33,757
It is interesting they picked the 12 year mark as other industries were changing their retirement plans 12 years ago as well. Luckily I got in just before the changes, but that also made me a target as well.

Oil and Gas did the same type reductions during $35 bbl prices. Once the volunteers were gone they started with anyone that had low performance ratings and then it got into high quality folks before it was over. Wonder how this will play out with other manufacturers?

IMO environmental constraints have created much of this. Same in oil and gas, but thankful things changed in DC and thousands went back to work. Hopefully some of the CAFE requirements can be backed off and save automotive jobs too.
__________________
.
mlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2018, 12:37 PM   #17732
Number 3
Hail to the King baby!
 
Number 3's Avatar
 
Drives: '16 ATS 2.0T & '17 Buick LaCrose
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 10,447
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlee View Post
It is interesting they picked the 12 year mark as other industries were changing their retirement plans 12 years ago as well. Luckily I got in just before the changes, but that also made me a target as well.

Oil and Gas did the same type reductions during $35 bbl prices. Once the volunteers were gone they started with anyone that had low performance ratings and then it got into high quality folks before it was over. Wonder how this will play out with other manufacturers?

IMO environmental constraints have created much of this. Same in oil and gas, but thankful things changed in DC and thousands went back to work. Hopefully some of the CAFE requirements can be backed off and save automotive jobs too.

If GM invested in a product plan to satisfy Obama ERA EPA numbers 3, 4 and 5 years ago a sudden change doesn't fix that. In fact it has the potential to wip out returns on that investment.

With gas prices today how many do you think will be buying a 4 cylinder turbo Silverado? That engine alone was 100s of millions in investment with potentially no return.

I got shivers when I read that GM appealed to the Feds for EV mandates like California. They wouldn't have done that unless they suddenly becam worried there would be no need for their future portfolio.

Let's hope I'm wrong.
__________________
"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley Link to Every Camaro photo I've taken in Hi-Resolution
Number 3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2018, 12:59 PM   #17733
mlee
--->
 
mlee's Avatar
 
Drives: 2019 Crush ZLE
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Conroe, TX
Posts: 33,757
Yeah that certainly doesn't paint a pretty picture. Hope you're wrong too. Will see how this plays out.
__________________
.
mlee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2018, 06:25 PM   #17734
2cnd chance
Too Many Great Choices
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: Grand Sport/Z07
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A Mountain Road
Posts: 7,325
The money making industry (hedge-funds, venture-capitalists) is becoming more powerful than ever. This new economy that they have bought is going to quickly change things. In our industry we are for the first time seeing mass consolidation and those that can’t compete are disappearing. Manufacturers are also either buying out their longtime distributors or crushing them out of business. Bottomline it’s not just the Auto business. Hang on to your butts!
__________________
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2018, 07:07 PM   #17735
macalot
 
macalot's Avatar
 
Drives: 1969 + 2015 Z/28s F250 SD
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Pittsburgh Area, Pa
Posts: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Bottomline it’s not just the Auto business. Hang on to your butts!
I'll agree with you. This has been happening in the Food Industry for some time and is only getting worse.
If I was 30 years younger I'd be selling and moving on to something else.
__________________
You know you are having fun when you are getting 3.4 mpg !!
macalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2018, 10:44 PM   #17736
2cnd chance
Too Many Great Choices
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: Grand Sport/Z07
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A Mountain Road
Posts: 7,325
Quote:
Originally Posted by macalot View Post
I'll agree with you. This has been happening in the Food Industry for some time and is only getting worse.
If I was 30 years younger I'd be selling and moving on to something else.
That’s exactly what they want to happen.
__________________
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2018, 02:45 AM   #17737
DGthe3
Moderator.ca
 
DGthe3's Avatar
 
Drives: 05 Grand Am GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Niagara, Canada
Posts: 24,920
Send a message via MSN to DGthe3
__________________
Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________
Originally Posted by FbodFather
My sister's dentist's brother's cousin's housekeeper's dog-breeder's nephew sells coffee filters to the company that provides coffee to General Motors......
........and HE WOULD KNOW!!!!
__________________

Camaro Fest sub-forum
DGthe3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2018, 10:21 AM   #17738
hjdca
 
Drives: 2015 Z/28 Black
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
If GM invested in a product plan to satisfy Obama ERA EPA numbers 3, 4 and 5 years ago a sudden change doesn't fix that. In fact it has the potential to wip out returns on that investment.

With gas prices today how many do you think will be buying a 4 cylinder turbo Silverado? That engine alone was 100s of millions in investment with potentially no return.

I got shivers when I read that GM appealed to the Feds for EV mandates like California. They wouldn't have done that unless they suddenly becam worried there would be no need for their future portfolio.

Let's hope I'm wrong.
Even the demograhics are changing. Most of the EV car companies are in California, and it is not about the drive train, it is about the software. Basically, EV car companies are software companies in California trying to learn how to manufacture cars in mass. It seems to me that the big 3 will be buying these California companies for their software, but still build the cars in their existing facilities....
__________________
2015 Black Z/28
70 Chevelle SS396
01 M3, 88 Land Cruiser
hjdca is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
"number z", 2014 700hp z/28, 3/27/2013, 75k, super de duper z thread, thread for the zed, what'z up?, where's our z/28, why no big z?, z/28 spring 2014

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Camaro vs House? P. Ham 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 82 05-20-2011 06:03 PM
House approves $2B more for 'cash for clunkers shank0668 General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 3 07-31-2009 05:36 PM
3rd Annual Corvette Open House at MacMulkin Chevrolet-WELCOMES the ALL NEW CAMARO!! MacMulkin USA - New England 2 04-11-2009 10:16 AM
White House Approves $17.4 Billion Auto Loans to GM & Chrysler josh1147 General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 97 12-29-2008 03:21 PM
White House says auto loans deal not imminent camaro5 General Automotive + Other Cars Discussion 11 12-15-2008 12:44 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.