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Old 08-09-2018, 02:04 PM   #1
Botta07
 
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Drives: 2014 ZL1 M6 "Red Hot"
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Zl1 Pulley/Cam/BAP questions for my first build

Hello ZL1 Family!

This is my first post so be gentle . I have searched this forum to find answers but still have some questions.

I have a 14 red hot ZL1 M6. Pretty much bone stock except for Rotofab CAI. Not tuned currently.

I'm building my bank of parts up to do my first set of mods. so far i have:
-ID850s
-1 7/8 SS headers w/ connection pipes - no cats.
-Wrapped the headers also
-ATI H-balancer
-Catch can
-1.75L IC resevoir
-Afco HX - no fans just the hx



My goal is to be in the low 600 to 630 rwhp range without having to do a cam install. Also, I would like to maintain the drive ability of the car since its my DD. I don't plan to race it, or take it to the track. Just want to enjoy the car on the street and smoke mustangs when I see them

Ive seen 2 posts on this subject and one guy had the same setup with the 9.55" / 22% pulley and dyno tuned (dyno jet) at 630rwhp. Another guy with similar setup was at 585rwhp (not sure if it was a mustang dyno or not). Both did not mention a BAP or cam. Just the 22% pulley and supporting mods listed above.

On several posts Ive read where anything over 18% pulley, your not benefiting from a the stock cam and need to upgrade.

Id prefer to do a cam at a later point in time if possible, but I am committed to get to my goal rwhp as well.

Questions:
-If I go with a 22% pulley, do i need a BAP? Do I need a cam? If I did a cam, is a BAP needed still?

-If I went with the 18% pulley, no cam, would I need a BAP?

-If I did go with a 22% pulley and BAP to support it; does anyone have any good cam suggestions that gives you a slight choppy idle, good HP increase, but maintains the DD drive ability? I was thinking of the BTR Stage 4??


(If I do go with a cam i would be upgrading the springs and push rods,etc. /Stock rockers tho).


Sorry for the book, just trying to be as specific as possible. Any input is appreciated!

Edit: Forgot to mention I plan to run 93 gas only.

Last edited by Botta07; 08-09-2018 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 08-09-2018, 03:55 PM   #2
Botta07
 
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I think i found a partial answer to the BAP question here: Thread

So I guess Ill be getting a BAP if i go with the 22% and might as well do the cam too.

Or ill just stick with an 18% for now with no BAP or cam.
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Old 08-09-2018, 05:46 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botta07 View Post
I think i found a partial answer to the BAP question here: Thread

So I guess Ill be getting a BAP if i go with the 22% and might as well do the cam too.

Or ill just stick with an 18% for now with no BAP or cam.
JRE 125 RWHP kit is what you described, and itís proven..
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Old 08-09-2018, 06:20 PM   #4
ABADZL1
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You need a BAP with 18%. You will also need injectors with an 18%
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Old 08-10-2018, 09:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botta07 View Post

Ive seen 2 posts on this subject and one guy had the same setup with the 9.55" / 22% pulley and dyno tuned (dyno jet) at 630rwhp. Another guy with similar setup was at 585rwhp (not sure if it was a mustang dyno or not). Both did not mention a BAP or cam. Just the 22% pulley and supporting mods listed above.
I'd guess your assumption of a Mustang dyno is correct. As I put down 585 on. A dyno jet with 18% and stock manifolds, no headers
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Old 08-10-2018, 11:37 AM   #6
JANNETTYRACING

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botta07 View Post
Hello ZL1 Family!

This is my first post so be gentle . I have searched this forum to find answers but still have some questions.

I have a 14 red hot ZL1 M6. Pretty much bone stock except for Rotofab CAI. Not tuned currently.

I'm building my bank of parts up to do my first set of mods. so far i have:
-ID850s
-1 7/8 SS headers w/ connection pipes - no cats.
-Wrapped the headers also
-ATI H-balancer
-Catch can
-1.75L IC resevoir
-Afco HX - no fans just the hx



My goal is to be in the low 600 to 630 rwhp range without having to do a cam install. Also, I would like to maintain the drive ability of the car since its my DD. I don't plan to race it, or take it to the track. Just want to enjoy the car on the street and smoke mustangs when I see them

Ive seen 2 posts on this subject and one guy had the same setup with the 9.55" / 22% pulley and dyno tuned (dyno jet) at 630rwhp. Another guy with similar setup was at 585rwhp (not sure if it was a mustang dyno or not). Both did not mention a BAP or cam. Just the 22% pulley and supporting mods listed above.

On several posts Ive read where anything over 18% pulley, your not benefiting from a the stock cam and need to upgrade.

Id prefer to do a cam at a later point in time if possible, but I am committed to get to my goal rwhp as well.

Questions:
-If I go with a 22% pulley, do i need a BAP? Do I need a cam? If I did a cam, is a BAP needed still?

-If I went with the 18% pulley, no cam, would I need a BAP?

-If I did go with a 22% pulley and BAP to support it; does anyone have any good cam suggestions that gives you a slight choppy idle, good HP increase, but maintains the DD drive ability? I was thinking of the BTR Stage 4??


(If I do go with a cam i would be upgrading the springs and push rods,etc. /Stock rockers tho).


Sorry for the book, just trying to be as specific as possible. Any input is appreciated!

Edit: Forgot to mention I plan to run 93 gas only.
You are on your way to your goal congrats, if we can be of any assistance let us know.

Anything over 10% you need a JMS fuel pump voltage booster and injectors which you already have.

We typically don't go to a 22.5% until we add our JRE rough or smooth Idle road race special cam package.

I recommend the JRE rough Idle road race special cam package, it will do every thing well and you will be at least 675 RWHP.

I can also help out with custom tuning.

Thanks for the recommendation guys, Ted.
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Old 08-10-2018, 08:17 PM   #7
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I can also recommend the Jannetty packages. I have done everything DIY with his parts and tune up to the rough idle cam and 10" pulley. The car runs superior.


Ted and his group are super responsive and get parts right out.

A couple things I learned:

The BAP is a little tricky to square away, make sure you have double checked your pedal voltages and that it is initializing at the proper level.

Try not to touch the grounds if you can avoid it, I did the Rotofab and was able to not removed them

Replace the stock battery with the largest capacity AGM

Nitto nt05r in 20inch are almost a necessity to keep the rear down even if not drag racing the car, they handle tight and do not go up in smoke like the stockers
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:49 AM   #8
Botta07
 
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Thanks for the input on this! I do appreciate it.



What are the benefits of the JMS vs Kenne Bell BAP?

I understand the JMS is adjustable but has anyone used the Kenne Bell and had the same level of success? To me it looks like both are using the boost pressure to determine the voltage output needed, but the JMS is also tapping into the TPS to better calculate the pump needs? Any reason not to go with the Kenne Bell BAP vs the JMS?



Also, for the cam kit; the JRE rough idle is another good option compared to the BTR Stage 3 or 4 cam. Looking online the kit is offered but includes a bunch of extras like the oil pump and thermostat. Is there a basic cam kit for the JRE rough idle cam that provides the essentials i.e. (cam, pushrods, locks, retainers, springs, 3 bolt timing gear)? Also, my car has 24k miles on it, do I really need a new timing chain and timing chain dampener?

Any insight or lessons learned from anyone on what they would or wouldn't have installed during a cam upgrade? Anything they didn't install but wish they did?

Thanks again for all the input! I want to make sure I do my upgrades in not only a cost efficient way but also in a smart way as this will be my main daily driver. I would still like to be able to drive my car cross country if needed but also take it to the drag strip or track when I want. So hopefully this build will meet that goal.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:05 AM   #9
JANNETTYRACING

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botta07 View Post
Thanks for the input on this! I do appreciate it.



What are the benefits of the JMS vs Kenne Bell BAP?

I understand the JMS is adjustable but has anyone used the Kenne Bell and had the same level of success? To me it looks like both are using the boost pressure to determine the voltage output needed, but the JMS is also tapping into the TPS to better calculate the pump needs? Any reason not to go with the Kenne Bell BAP vs the JMS?



Also, for the cam kit; the JRE rough idle is another good option compared to the BTR Stage 3 or 4 cam. Looking online the kit is offered but includes a bunch of extras like the oil pump and thermostat. Is there a basic cam kit for the JRE rough idle cam that provides the essentials i.e. (cam, pushrods, locks, retainers, springs, 3 bolt timing gear)? Also, my car has 24k miles on it, do I really need a new timing chain and timing chain dampener?

Any insight or lessons learned from anyone on what they would or wouldn't have installed during a cam upgrade? Anything they didn't install but wish they did?

Thanks again for all the input! I want to make sure I do my upgrades in not only a cost efficient way but also in a smart way as this will be my main daily driver. I would still like to be able to drive my car cross country if needed but also take it to the drag strip or track when I want. So hopefully this build will meet that goal.
We prefer the JMS due to the Pedal activation vs a boost signal and the auto shut off feature, and ability to adjust to your liking.

We have no problem selling you a cam package ala cart you can select what ever parts you like.

We do recommend you go with our full package for best reliability and performance.

Thank you
Ted.
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Celebrating 33 years Performance parts, Installation, Fabrication, Dyno tuning, Remote custom tuning, and alignments. 203-753-7223 Waterbury CT. 06705
email tedj@jannettyracing.com
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Old 08-16-2018, 10:07 AM   #10
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my 12 M6 has: 2.5 metco upper, longtubes, ID850s and rotofab and is tuned by JDP and made 620whp and 612TQ on a stock pump and 91. and I can get in it and drive it on roadtrips and not have to worry. just some more info for you.
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ZL1-- Stainless works 1"7/8 headers, Metco 2.55 upper, Rotofab cold air, ID 850's, Borla Atak catback car made 621whp and 612wtq @ 4,400 ft elevation Tuned by JDP
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Old 08-16-2018, 12:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jfalkner94 View Post
my 12 M6 has: 2.5 metco upper, longtubes, ID850s and rotofab and is tuned by JDP and made 620whp and 612TQ on a stock pump and 91. and I can get in it and drive it on roadtrips and not have to worry. just some more info for you.
I wonder if the stock pump would hold up under WOT if you road-tripped it to sea level? From 4400ft, you'd be looking at about 15% more air density once you got to the beach (assuming the same temperature).

I realize a closed loop MAF setup should keep the AFR where it needs to be for part throttle, but what happens when you go WOT and get into the PE? If you are on the hairy edge of the pump at elevation, I assume you are out of pump at sea level?

Just a genuine question. I wonder if folks in some areas of California need to worry about this (i.e., if you build and tune it at 5000ft, then take a trip to sea level for a drag strip run, I'd imagine you need to overbuild your fuel system to account for this). Never really considered this myself, because I'm only at about 1000 ft.
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Old 08-16-2018, 04:27 PM   #12
Botta07
 
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Not sure. I would be tuning mine at sea level since im in eastern NC, but would be occasionally be driving to the mountains near Charlotte from time to time. That may not be enough elevation change to make a difference, but I dont know. I would be interested to understand if a tune could compensate somehow?

Also, Im still torn on doing the CAM at this time.

Anyone putting down low 600whp range with 18% lower pulley and supporting mods?
Im afraid if I go with the 23% pulley and dont do a CAM that I will create issues and not gain any additional HP.
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Old 08-16-2018, 05:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botta07 View Post
Not sure. I would be tuning mine at sea level since im in eastern NC, but would be occasionally be driving to the mountains near Charlotte from time to time. That may not be enough elevation change to make a difference, but I dont know. I would be interested to understand if a tune could compensate somehow?

Also, Im still torn on doing the CAM at this time.

Anyone putting down low 600whp range with 18% lower pulley and supporting mods?
Im afraid if I go with the 23% pulley and dont do a CAM that I will create issues and not gain any additional HP.
Yes, itís the JRE 125 package.
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Old 08-16-2018, 05:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botta07 View Post
Not sure. I would be tuning mine at sea level since im in eastern NC, but would be occasionally be driving to the mountains near Charlotte from time to time. That may not be enough elevation change to make a difference, but I dont know. I would be interested to understand if a tune could compensate somehow?

Also, Im still torn on doing the CAM at this time.

Anyone putting down low 600whp range with 18% lower pulley and supporting mods?
Im afraid if I go with the 23% pulley and dont do a CAM that I will create issues and not gain any additional HP.
The lower the fuel pressure is, the higher the injector duty cycle goes. Whatever you do, make sure fuel pressure maintains 65 psi @ wot.
Duty cycle approaching 90% makes it harder on the injectors, causing incorrect injection timing and poor atomization. BAP will give you better injection timing, and little better atomization.
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Idle Clip Link...........https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTL8S9eHwbs
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