[Hylton]

Forgoing fleet sales for ATP is just insane (pick an industry). Now you have only half the units to amortize not only R&D but also plant overhead against. Brilliant!

[Cldgin2]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Forgoing fleet sales for ATP is just insane (pick an industry). Now you have only half the units to amortize not only R&D but also plant overhead against. Brilliant!

Corvette doesn't sell to fleet . And it does just fine

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Cldgin2

Corvette doesn't sell to fleet . And it does just fine

Corvette's target market will pay 70-100K for a product. Camaro's will not.

[nvrsatisfied]

Originally Posted by Thor142

That's a lot of butt hurt from a comment some guy you don't even know made on a forum.

I thought you were gonna stay out of this months sales thread

I'm not butt hurt and I never said I would stay out of it. I said someone has to post positive comments to make up for all the haters. I did and will continue to do so. Have a great day!

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Cldgin2

Corvette doesn't sell to fleet . And it does just fine

Pretty sure I saw a C7 convertible at Enterprise on my last trip to Florida. But I agree it is a very small number, it's just not zero.

[HogsFan75]

Originally Posted by Thor142

That's a lot of butt hurt from a comment some guy you don't even know made on a forum.

I thought you were gonna stay out of this months sales thread

He is the most butthurt person on these forums. A 6th gen social justice warrior at best, who slams anyone who doesn't act like this car is the second coming of Christ.

Originally Posted by nvrsatisfied

I'm not butt hurt and I never said I would stay out of it. I said someone has to post positive comments to make up for all the heaters. I did and will continue to do so. Have a great day!

It's still summer. Why are you talking about heaters?

[BrandX]

I personally do not care if it is the sales leader....................

It leads virtually all performance metrics for cars in and out of it's class for the price and beyond.......PERIOD, END OF STORY....The ZL1 and Z28 will shatter those metrics for the price.

Oh by the way:

Loaded 2017 Mustang GT PP: $44K MSRP
2017 2ss Camaro with comparable equipment: $45k MSRP........
2017 Scat Pack or SRT Challenger: 43K to 54K MSRP

Keep in mind the 2ss at that price may or may not include Mag Ride or Dual Mode, which is not even available on the Mustang.

I really do not understand why people say the Camaro is so much more expensive. Spec out a Mustang and Camaro with the same AVAILABLE equipment on both cars, and there is virtually no gap.

Maybe because Ford has more incentives?...remember those lack of incentives on the Camaro hopefully mean a higher resale value down the road.

The other arguments poor trunk, backseat, visibility, blah blah blah!!!!!!
The only one where the backseat is truly useable by adults for any length of time is the Challenger.........and all the cars have visibility issues in some fashion, but once you are accustomed to the Camaro, it is not an issue.

My .02 cents....

I think some of you just like to bitch about something.

No Offense.

[cellsafemode]

Originally Posted by BrandX

I personally do not care if it is the sales leader....................

It leads virtually all performance metrics for cars in and out of it's class for the price and beyond.......PERIOD, END OF STORY....The ZL1 and Z28 will shatter those metrics for the price.

Oh by the way:

Loaded 2017 Mustang GT PP: $44K MSRP
2017 2ss Camaro with comparable equipment: $45k MSRP........
2017 Scat Pack or SRT Challenger: 43K to 54K MSRP

Keep in mind the 2ss at that price may or may not include Mag Ride or Dual Mode, which is not even available on the Mustang.

I really do not understand why people say the Camaro is so much more expensive. Spec out a Mustang and Camaro with the same AVAILABLE equipment on both cars, and there is virtually no gap.

Maybe because Ford has more incentives?...remember those lack of incentives on the Camaro hopefully mean a higher resale value down the road.

The other arguments poor trunk, backseat, visibility, blah blah blah!!!!!!
The only one where the backseat is truly useable by adults for any length of time is the Challenger.........and all the cars have visibility issues in some fashion, but once you are accustomed to the Camaro, it is not an issue.

My .02 cents....

I think some of you just like to bitch about something.

No Offense.

but this is the problem. Camaro's aren't supposed to be leaders in metrics. They're supposed to be built cheaper and thus less performing to sell to a market that can't afford buying performance leading vehicles. They just want something that looks fast and may over time upgrade it to perform better. An option that is attractive because it can be effective cheaply.

The 5th and even more so, the 6th gen camaro has thrown that out. Now this new branding of camaro is facing a similar issue that the 4th gen faced when it got cancelled. The question is if this is all going according to Chevrolet's plan.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by BrandX

I personally do not care if it is the sales leader....................

It leads virtually all performance metrics for cars in and out of it's class for the price and beyond.......PERIOD, END OF STORY....The ZL1 and Z28 will shatter those metrics for the price.

Oh by the way:

Loaded 2017 Mustang GT PP: $44K MSRP
2017 2ss Camaro with comparable equipment: $45k MSRP........
2017 Scat Pack or SRT Challenger: 43K to 54K MSRP

Keep in mind the 2ss at that price may or may not include Mag Ride or Dual Mode, which is not even available on the Mustang.

I really do not understand why people say the Camaro is so much more expensive. Spec out a Mustang and Camaro with the same AVAILABLE equipment on both cars, and there is virtually no gap.

Maybe because Ford has more incentives?...remember those lack of incentives on the Camaro hopefully mean a higher resale value down the road.

The other arguments poor trunk, backseat, visibility, blah blah blah!!!!!!
The only one where the backseat is truly useable by adults for any length of time is the Challenger.........and all the cars have visibility issues in some fashion, but once you are accustomed to the Camaro, it is not an issue.

My .02 cents....

I think some of you just like to bitch about something.

No Offense.

You can option things to be exactly the same (roughly, in terms of equipment)..there's always going to be things that one car has that the other doesn't.

The SP's and SRT's have dual mode exhaust as standard, it's optional on the Camaro and not available yet on the Mustang. And for 2017 ALL V8 Chargers and Challengers are getting dual mode as standard.

The Camaro has a SS standard HUD, which isn't available on either the Mustang or Challenger.

The fact is, generally, if you're going to a lot and looking at a GT premium from dealer stock, and a 2SS from dealer stock, the Camaro will likely be about $4,000 more. Again..you can *order* it and spec it out to be really close, but the average buyer isn't going to do that. They're going to go to a dealership, get talked into the GT Premium or 2SS or leather SP..and sign on the line.

[BrandX]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

but this is the problem. Camaro's aren't supposed to be leaders in metrics. They're supposed to be built cheaper and thus less performing to sell to a market that can't afford buying performance leading vehicles. They just want something that looks fast and may over time upgrade it to perform better. An option that is attractive because it can be effective cheaply.

The 5th and even more so, the 6th gen camaro has thrown that out. Now this new branding of camaro is facing a similar issue that the 4th gen faced when it got cancelled. The question is if this is all going according to Chevrolet's plan.

I see your point, bit personally I am at that stage of the hobby where I do not want to do extensive mechanical modifications to the car to achieve performance. Those who drive these cars always clamor from the manufacturers that we want more, more, more,...........Now we have the more, more, more, and it cost money, money, money.

I see you have a 1LT...I will concede the V6 and I4 cars are drastically overpriced compared to the competition. however, that 1LT Camaro of yours is much better than a comparable mustang as far as driving dynamics and performance.

If sales remain stable...then the car will remain in Chevy's line-up.

[Cldgin2]

Originally Posted by Hylton

Corvette's target market will pay 70-100K for a product. Camaro's will not.

I kindly disagree... And not all Vettes break 70k . That zl1 hits it's so fresh you'll see quite a few about. The camaro segment is changing, for the better I might add. Pay a little more for this type of car? Yes please. Fleet sales sacrifice quality. The more people see / experience these cars the more they will sell. I could give a crap if they beat mustangs on some sales ledger. I beat them on the track all night long last Friday. That's where it counts

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by BrandX

I personally do not care if it is the sales leader....................

It leads virtually all performance metrics for cars in and out of it's class for the price and beyond.......PERIOD, END OF STORY....The ZL1 and Z28 will shatter those metrics for the price.

Oh by the way:

Loaded 2017 Mustang GT PP: $44K MSRP
2017 2ss Camaro with comparable equipment: $45k MSRP........
2017 Scat Pack or SRT Challenger: 43K to 54K MSRP

Keep in mind the 2ss at that price may or may not include Mag Ride or Dual Mode, which is not even available on the Mustang.

I really do not understand why people say the Camaro is so much more expensive. Spec out a Mustang and Camaro with the same AVAILABLE equipment on both cars, and there is virtually no gap.

Maybe because Ford has more incentives?...remember those lack of incentives on the Camaro hopefully mean a higher resale value down the road.

The other arguments poor trunk, backseat, visibility, blah blah blah!!!!!!
The only one where the backseat is truly useable by adults for any length of time is the Challenger.........and all the cars have visibility issues in some fashion, but once you are accustomed to the Camaro, it is not an issue.

My .02 cents....

I think some of you just like to bitch about something.

No Offense.

The camaro doesn't have to be the leader in sales, but it needs to be competitive....which for the past year hasn't even come close to. GM has already shown willingness to shut down platforms due to lack of sales, so any camaro fan should care.

I'd also like to point out, unless you are a classic car collector, people don't buy new cars because of their resale value. If they did, BMW and Mercedes would be out of business. GM is going to learn this the hard way. Fleet sales have never stopped people from buying the mustang in droves.

I've said it before, the performance folks on these forums are few and far between compared to the average Joe looking for a pony car. They care far more about looks, ergonomics, trunk capacity etc. than the do that the car is the segment leader in performance. Ford has proven time and again that they don't need to put out the most power, or the fastest lap time. They just need to be close enough.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by BrandX

I see your point, bit personally I am at that stage of the hobby where I do not want to do extensive mechanical modifications to the car to achieve performance. Those who drive these cars always clamor from the manufacturers that we want more, more, more,...........Now we have the more, more, more, and it cost money, money, money.

I see you have a 1LT...I will concede the V6 and I4 cars are drastically overpriced compared to the competition. however, that 1LT Camaro of yours is much better than a comparable mustang as far as driving dynamics and performance.

If sales remain stable...then the car will remain in Chevy's line-up.

It's the LT camaros that are keeping the platform alive. If they don't sell, there is no camaro.

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by Cldgin2

I kindly disagree... And not all Vettes break 70k . That zl1 hits it's so fresh you'll see quite a few about. The camaro segment is changing, for the better I might add. Pay a little more for this type of car? Yes please. Fleet sales sacrifice quality. The more people see / experience these cars the more they will sell. I could give a crap if they beat mustangs on some sales ledger. I beat them on the track all night long last Friday. That's where it counts

How does fleet sales sacrifice quality? Fleet (rental) sales support your argument. I don't know of a better way to get people to see and experience a vehicle than through rental.