LMR CAI vs Cold Air Induction Inc TEST with RESULTS!!

[Rafsanjani]

Originally Posted by DarricSS

.Just my opinion but the LMR looks like a baby elephant trunk to me....

[MadMav]

Originally Posted by DarricSS

I agree, looks are a big part of the purchase when dealing with such small HP gains...Just my opinion but the LMR looks like a baby elephant trunk to me.

I agree, but the CAI looks like a reject 1930s spaceship. Yuck!



Mav

[JR-Vette]

Few thoughts to think about

1. Of course any CAI is illegal to EPA ( filter is a smog device) and GM warranty
2. GM rid using METAL for any path of air as it induces more heat into the air which does not give a cylinder a good charge so will cause, more knock, leaner, and less performance due to timing loss. Metal airbridge will cause air to stew at idle and slow speeds.
3. Heat raises so any aircleaner placed high is more prone to that heat.
4. seals that are supposed to seal to underside of hood never work well over time and tend to leak hot air into a closed enclosure
5. Testing a aircleaner and claiming performance gains :

A. is a joke, strapped to a chassis dyno is not anywhere near airflow streams in realworld
B. Chassis dyno have at least a 10 percent margin of error so you cannot even take results from one car to another even in the same hour and even a simple difference in how well or poor a car was strapped down will cause a different end results and only reporting 10 - 20 HP difference is within the margin of error. Bad tests methods making claims this way.

6. round, conical aircleaners cause turbulence which effects the MAF so filter flatter and more surface assures air straightens out before flowing across MAF.

7. a stock clean aircleaner would pass the same amount of air as one causing $300, what CAI is all about is colder, denser air burns much better. A stock GM aircleaner setup will allow warranty and EPA issues and instead use water/methanol injection will reduce air temps by at least 40 degrees and more.

8. EPA as of this month is getting real tough and new law passing by June will be worse.

Look at how these 10 guys are now looking at jail and up to $250,000 fine
is small HP gains worse getting wacked by EPA ?

Department of Justice
Office of Public Affairs
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Friday, January 8, 2010


10 Las Vegas Men Indicted for Falsifying Vehicle Emissions Tests
Nevada DMV Computerized Database Led to Discovery of Falsifications
WASHINGTON—A federal grand jury in Las Vegas today returned indictments against 10 Nevada-certified emissions testers for falsifying vehicle emissions test reports, the Justice Department announced.
Each defendant faces one felony Clean Air Act count for falsifying reports between November 2007 and May 2009. The number of falsifications varied by defendant, with some defendants having falsified approximately 250 records, while others falsified more than double that figure. One defendant is alleged to have falsified over 700 reports.
The individuals indicted include:

• Eduardo Franco, 30
• Alexander Wayne Worster, 27
• William Joseph McCown, 48
• Joseph DeMatteo, 52
• David Eugene Nelson, 46
• Louis Engene Demeo, 50
• Adolpho Silva-Contreras, 47
• Peter Escudero, 47
• Wadji Waked, 24
• Gary Smith, 47

Escudero resides in Pahrump, Nev. All other individuals are from Clark County, Nev.
The 10 defendants are alleged to have engaged in a practice known as "clean scanning" vehicles. The scheme involved entering the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) for a vehicle that would not pass the emissions test into the computerized system, then connecting a different vehicle the testers knew would pass the test. These falsifications were allegedly performed for anywhere from $10 to $100 over and above the usual emissions testing fee.
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), under the Clean Air Act, requires the state of Nevada to conduct vehicle emissions testing in certain areas because the areas exceed national standards for carbon monoxide and ozone. Las Vegas is currently required to perform emissions testing.
To obtain a registration renewal, vehicle owners bring the vehicles to a licensed inspection station for testing. The emissions inspector logs into a computer to activate the system by using a unique password issued to the emissions inspector. The emissions inspector manually inputs the vehicle’s VIN to identify the tested vehicle, then connects the vehicle for model year 1996 and later to an onboard diagnostics port connected to an analyzer. The analyzer downloads data from the vehicle’s computer, analyzes the data and provides a "pass" or "fail" result. The pass or fail result and vehicle identification data are reported on the Vehicle Inspection Report. It is a crime to knowingly alter or conceal any record or other document required to be maintained by the Clean Air Act.
"Falsifications of vehicle emissions testing, such as those alleged in the indictments unsealed today, are serious matters and we intend to use all of our enforcement tools to stop this harmful practice. These actions undermine a system that is designed to reduce air pollutants including smog and provide better air quality for the citizens of Nevada," said Ignacia S. Moreno, Assistant Attorney General for the Justice Department’s Environment and Natural Resources Division.
"The residents of Nevada deserve to know that the vast majority of licensed vehicle emission inspectors are not corrupt and are not circumventing emission testing procedures," said U.S. Attorney Bogden. "These indictments should serve as a clear warning to offenders that the Department of Justice will prosecute you if you make fraudulent statements and reports concerning compliance with the federal Clean Air Act."
"Lying about car emissions means dirtier air, which is especially of concern in areas like Las Vegas that are already experiencing air quality problems," said Cynthia Giles, Assistant Administrator for Enforcement and Compliance Assurance at EPA. "We will take aggressive action to ensure communities have clean air."
The maximum penalty for the felony violations contained in the indictments includes up to two years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000.
An indictment is merely an accusation, and a defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty in a court of law.
The case was investigated by the EPA, Criminal Investigation Division; and the Nevada Department of Motor Vehicles Compliance Enforcement Division. The case is being prosecuted by the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Nevada and the Justice Department’s Environmental Crimes Section.

[WhyMe]

And the C.A.I. is much better looking. If the difference between kits is only 3-5 hp you will never notice it so why not go with what compliments the looks of the car. Ordering the C.A.I soon.

[darenf02]

GM makes its own CAI and sells it through GMPP.....I highly doubt its illegal, especially considering the Gov is in control of GM.

The legal gibberish at the bottom has absolutely nothing to do with CAI's. These employees were passing old cars with HIGH miles, worn-out/missing cats, smoked rings, etc., using other vehicles in exchange for a cash payment from the customers.

Originally Posted by JR-Vette

Few thoughts to think about

1. Of course any CAI is illegal to EPA ( filter is a smog device) and GM warranty
2. GM rid using METAL for any path of air as it induces more heat into the air which does not give a cylinder a good charge so will cause, more knock, leaner, and less performance due to timing loss. Metal airbridge will cause air to stew at idle and slow speeds.
3. Heat raises so any aircleaner placed high is more prone to that heat.
4. seals that are supposed to seal to underside of hood never work well over time and tend to leak hot air into a closed enclosure
5. Testing a aircleaner and claiming performance gains :

A. is a joke, strapped to a chassis dyno is not anywhere near airflow streams in realworld
B. Chassis dyno have at least a 10 percent margin of error so you cannot even take results from one car to another even in the same hour and even a simple difference in how well or poor a car was strapped down will cause a different end results and only reporting 10 - 20 HP difference is within the margin of error. Bad tests methods making claims this way.

6. round, conical aircleaners cause turbulence which effects the MAF so filter flatter and more surface assures air straightens out before flowing across MAF.

7. a stock clean aircleaner would pass the same amount of air as one causing $300, what CAI is all about is colder, denser air burns much better. A stock GM aircleaner setup will allow warranty and EPA issues and instead use water/methanol injection will reduce air temps by at least 40 degrees and more.

8. EPA as of this month is getting real tough and new law passing by June will be worse.

Look at how these 10 guys are now looking at jail and up to $250,000 fine
is small HP gains worse getting wacked by EPA ?

Department of Justice
Office of Public Affairs
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Friday, January 8, 2010


10 Las Vegas Men Indicted for Falsifying Vehicle Emissions Tests
Nevada DMV Computerized Database Led to Discovery of Falsifications
WASHINGTON—A federal grand jury in Las Vegas today returned indictments against 10 Nevada-certified emissions testers for falsifying vehicle emissions test reports, the Justice Department announced.
Each defendant faces one felony Clean Air Act count for falsifying reports between November 2007 and May 2009. The number of falsifications varied by defendant, with some defendants having falsified approximately 250 records, while others falsified more than double that figure. One defendant is alleged to have falsified over 700 reports.
The individuals indicted include:

• Eduardo Franco, 30
• Alexander Wayne Worster, 27
• William Joseph McCown, 48
• Joseph DeMatteo, 52
• David Eugene Nelson, 46
• Louis Engene Demeo, 50
• Adolpho Silva-Contreras, 47
• Peter Escudero, 47
• Wadji Waked, 24
• Gary Smith, 47

Escudero resides in Pahrump, Nev. All other individuals are from Clark County, Nev.
The 10 defendants are alleged to have engaged in a practice known as "clean scanning" vehicles. The scheme involved entering the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) for a vehicle that would not pass the emissions test into the computerized system, then connecting a different vehicle the testers knew would pass the test. These falsifications were allegedly performed for anywhere from $10 to $100 over and above the usual emissions testing fee.
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), under the Clean Air Act, requires the state of Nevada to conduct vehicle emissions testing in certain areas because the areas exceed national standards for carbon monoxide and ozone. Las Vegas is currently required to perform emissions testing.
To obtain a registration renewal, vehicle owners bring the vehicles to a licensed inspection station for testing. The emissions inspector logs into a computer to activate the system by using a unique password issued to the emissions inspector. The emissions inspector manually inputs the vehicle’s VIN to identify the tested vehicle, then connects the vehicle for model year 1996 and later to an onboard diagnostics port connected to an analyzer. The analyzer downloads data from the vehicle’s computer, analyzes the data and provides a "pass" or "fail" result. The pass or fail result and vehicle identification data are reported on the Vehicle Inspection Report. It is a crime to knowingly alter or conceal any record or other document required to be maintained by the Clean Air Act.
"Falsifications of vehicle emissions testing, such as those alleged in the indictments unsealed today, are serious matters and we intend to use all of our enforcement tools to stop this harmful practice. These actions undermine a system that is designed to reduce air pollutants including smog and provide better air quality for the citizens of Nevada," said Ignacia S. Moreno, Assistant Attorney General for the Justice Department’s Environment and Natural Resources Division.
"The residents of Nevada deserve to know that the vast majority of licensed vehicle emission inspectors are not corrupt and are not circumventing emission testing procedures," said U.S. Attorney Bogden. "These indictments should serve as a clear warning to offenders that the Department of Justice will prosecute you if you make fraudulent statements and reports concerning compliance with the federal Clean Air Act."
"Lying about car emissions means dirtier air, which is especially of concern in areas like Las Vegas that are already experiencing air quality problems," said Cynthia Giles, Assistant Administrator for Enforcement and Compliance Assurance at EPA. "We will take aggressive action to ensure communities have clean air."
The maximum penalty for the felony violations contained in the indictments includes up to two years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000.
An indictment is merely an accusation, and a defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty in a court of law.
The case was investigated by the EPA, Criminal Investigation Division; and the Nevada Department of Motor Vehicles Compliance Enforcement Division. The case is being prosecuted by the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Nevada and the Justice Department’s Environmental Crimes Section.

[mlee]

WTH was that...

[baby02]

To be fair to LMR, they were one of the first to supply a CAI system, the CAI system was not available until later. CAI had plenty of time to improve upon what other before them had already done. This is in no way a put down against CAI. I like the looks of their system, also. But, up until their system was put on the market, the majority of the system were black tubes with no sealed air box. I run the LMR and have no complaints. I don't race my car, but the performance is on par with K&n, Airraid, and AFE, all of which I have used on various cars, all of which I was equally satisfied.

[darenf02]

LOL

Originally Posted by mlee

WTH was that...

[darenf02]

You're right on target. They sold a bunch right out of the gate. Then along came competitors that took some of their market share. Instead of seeing it that way, they are blaming Jannetty Racing's test results. The differences in the "performance" of all the boxed CAI's are going to be marginal. Appearances and other preferences (brand, etc.) are the major differences.

Originally Posted by baby02

To be fair to LMR, they were one of the first to supply a CAI system, the CAI system was not available until later. CAI had plenty of time to improve upon what other before them had already done. This is in no way a put down against CAI. I like the looks of their system, also. But, up until their system was put on the market, the majority of the system were black tubes with no sealed air box. I run the LMR and have no complaints. I don't race my car, but the performance is on par with K&n, Airraid, and AFE, all of which I have used on various cars, all of which I was equally satisfied.

[Rafsanjani]

I feel LVPD comin down on me! I'm runnin!

Oh yeah, grammar check and spell check are your friends! BS check is a self install, use it often!

[baby02]

Originally Posted by darenf02

You're right on target. They sold a bunch right out of the gate. Then along came competitors that took some of their market share. Instead of seeing it that way, they are blaming Jannetty Racing's test results. The differences in the "performance" of all the boxed CAI's are going to be marginal. Appearances and other preferences (brand, etc.) are the major differences.

Thank You

[darenf02]

Originally Posted by Rafsanjani

I feel LVPD comin down on me! I'm runnin!

Oh yeah, grammar check and spell check are your friends! BS check is a self install, use it often!

[Tucker3000]

lots of decisions about CAI kits.
I have allot of reading to do

[darenf02]

My suggestion: skip this thread. Worthless.

Originally Posted by Tucker3000

lots of decisions about CAI kits.
I have allot of reading to do