Check your crankcase plug

[sigma_1966]

last week i checked my oil status it was at 30%. So seeing as how I work every second weekend i decided to take it in today. I have 34,000 KM (21,000 Mile)on the car. I checked my service history last oil change and inspection was done end of August 2010 at 24,000km (14,912 miles) which means I have only put on 10,0000 kms (6200 miles) since end of august last year. I have had no warning lights come on. My oil life thing said oil was at 24%.

So I went to the quick lube place. While their servicing my car one the lube guys says i need to show you this. So he takes me down under the car. Shows me that my crankcase plug is missing and shows me that I have oil leak. He says i should take it to the dealership and tell them that there was NO oil in the car. he says when i drove in he said there was a burning smell from the car. I have not smelled it, nor heard any sounds out of the ordinary. Then tries to sell me an oil flush.

I questioned him on how there can be no oil in the car if i have no warning lights. He said he had to put in 2 litres of oil just to have it register on the dipstick.

He tells me (and writes on my invoice) there is no indication the oil pan has had any impact. They finish the oil change and I take the car to the dealership.

When i get into the dealership I tell the service what has happened show him the invoice from the lube place withe the comments on it and give him the details. He says OK I am going to order you a rental car. Hasn't seen the underneath of the car.

I am sitting in the waiting room for well over an hour. He comes back and says he has cancelled the rental car because they couldn't find a leak. They have put some dye in the engine and that I should come back on monday. I tell him I saw the leak myself. So we go over to the car and the mechanic puts the car up on the hoist again. We go under the car is dripping with water since they sprayed it. He says "no oil leak". I said i saw it before. He tries to argue and says you can take the car and go home. I look and there is still no plug in the crank case. I asked why no plug and they said they have to order one. I asked the mechanic if it is ok drive with no plug he shrugs his shoulders (not much english in this guys vocabulary) and the service guys says yes it is. So i asked about water dirt etc getting in there. The service guy says "I will get my manager."

So the manager comes and says they didn't find a leak. I said there was oil all over the pan when they showed me at the lube place. We take another look sure enough there is small bit of oil dripping down. So manager says he will need the car until wednesday. I question him on whether or not there could be any damage to the engine because the lube guy said the ticking noise could be the valves and they could be damaged. he says the oil pan has to come off to look inside to see if there is any damage.

I know crap about engines the mechanical part of things. I am concerned my engine maybe damaged. Any opinions on this ?

[TJ91]

wow thats brutal! Im not to mechanically inclined on this as well so I hope we get some good answers. Hopefully this thread can get moved to a section where more people visit.
From what I believe, I know a few members have posted that their v6 was 2 quarts low on oil. That was from their v6 eating the oil. Not sure about the oil leaks though
I think the ticking is just the normal sound from the Direct Injection though.
Oh and v6s that did get damage from low oil, found damage on the crankshaft bearings I believe, could be wrong on that part though
Hopefully nothing big has gone bad, keep us posted

[sigma_1966]

No the crankcase plug

Originally Posted by booenson

Do you mean the oil drain plug?

[Wild Thing]

What is a crankcase plug?

[sigma_1966]

At back of oil pan on drivers side. A circle that is about 2 inches in diameter

Originally Posted by Wild Thing

What is a crankcase plug?

[CanadianCamaro]

Sigma I hate to say this but I wouldn't trust the guy at the quick-change place as far as i could throw him. No offense to any "good quality quick change places or people that work at them - But, "in general" they are not highly qualified mechanics (some may not even be licensed for what I know) and they specialize in ramming thru as many cars as they can in a day. And, there are some real scam artists out there too. I would let them near my car. Any of my cars.

So hear's the deal - I'm not sure what plug you're referring to. But there are very few places on your engine where the engine oil can get out other than a gasket or the pan plug. There is no plugs on the side/bottom or anywhere on your block that I am aware of that oil can exit. If there were, and the plug came out, you would know it for several reasons. Number one is visual inspection. Puddle in your driveway, oil all over the underside of your car. Plus, there IS an oil level sensor in your engine. I'm not saying the sensor isn't faulty, but it shouldn't be. That will warn you WELL before your oil gets low enough to damage your engine. That's another thing. IF your engine had "No" oil in it or even if it was very low, you would have engine damage. Could be anywhere from minor to total seaze. Trust me, you would know. B/C the damage would occur in a relatively short period of time. Engines need oil to run. Period. Regarding registering on the dipstick - well I'm not sure about the 6, but the LS3's take 8 litres (!!!) of oil. Mine won't show anything on the dipstick when I'm changing the oil until about the 5th litre goes in.

Now, what could it be. I suspect that the "missing plug" is actually nothing missing at all. All our engines have several spots on the blocks and heads that "appear" that there is something missing (a threaded hole for example). Those spots are used for variations of the engine or used during assembly/testing. Now I'm not sure if you're aware, but the engines in our cars do use some oil. I understand the 6's are worse than the 8's. I talked with a 6 owner recently who told me that his will easily go through a litre or more between oil changes. There is a few reasons for this and I won't get into them. But this is why you see guys installing catch cans. To gather some of the "blow-by" oil and keep it from running through the system, richening the AFM and even getting into the filter. Some cars use oil more than others. Now on your ticking noise. Is it a light ticking that you hear on cold start up and then it goes away as the engine warms (sometimes in seconds, other times a min or so)? B/C that is common in many engines, even more so in cold weather. This is commonly referred to as piston slop. In simple terms, everything is cold, metals contract, and there is more "play" in the cylinders so for a few moments on cold start up the pistons (for the lack of a better term) "rattle" in the cylinders. This is normal and about the only "ticking" sound that is normal. If it's more than that, then you "could" have a problem.

But my suspicion is you don't have any problems other than maybe above normal oil consumption. There's ways to check that too. Don't fret my friend. I suspect your car is just fine. I think you were told a story either intentionally or unintentionally (likely the latter). Remember, I'm offering this advice without seeing your car. IF you don't trust your dealer (what dealer are you using?) then go to another dealer. Or, if you really think there is a problem and want someone you can trust, take it over to SPi in Oakville (you're in TO right?) and talk to Andrew. I'd be happy to look at it for you if you want to meet up.

Best of luck

[sigma_1966]

I wish i had taken a picture to post. There are no oil leaks on my driveway and none in the spot i always park in at work. I looked up and down the driveway when i got home absolutely nothing. I looked underneath the car and looked for other oil on the under carriage. There is however a leak underneath.

I saw the hole both times and you can see into the engine. Maybe someone who works on them would be able to say what it is. I cannot imagine there being an opening in that spot and the mechanic did say that they had to order the plug for it. I could see inside the engine when i was looking into it both times.

As for ticking noise when i heard it we were under the car with it running at the lube place and i could hear it. I haven't noticed it any other time.

Originally Posted by CanadianCamaro

Sigma I hate to say this but I wouldn't trust the guy at the quick-change place as far as i could throw him. No offense to any "good quality quick change places or people that work at them - But, "in general" they are not highly qualified mechanics (some may not even be licensed for what I know) and they specialize in ramming thru as many cars as they can in a day. And, there are some real scam artists out there too. I would let them near my car. Any of my cars.

So hear's the deal - I'm not sure what plug you're referring to. But there are very few places on your engine where the engine oil can get out other than a gasket or the pan plug. There is no plugs on the side/bottom or anywhere on your block that I am aware of that oil can exit. If there were, and the plug came out, you would know it for several reasons. Number one is visual inspection. Puddle in your driveway, oil all over the underside of your car. Plus, there IS an oil level sensor in your engine. I'm not saying the sensor isn't faulty, but it shouldn't be. That will warn you WELL before your oil gets low enough to damage your engine. That's another thing. IF your engine had "No" oil in it or even if it was very low, you would have engine damage. Could be anywhere from minor to total seaze. Trust me, you would know. B/C the damage would occur in a relatively short period of time. Engines need oil to run. Period. Regarding registering on the dipstick - well I'm not sure about the 6, but the LS3's take 8 litres (!!!) of oil. Mine won't show anything on the dipstick when I'm changing the oil until about the 5th litre goes in.

Now, what could it be. I suspect that the "missing plug" is actually nothing missing at all. All our engines have several spots on the blocks and heads that "appear" that there is something missing (a threaded hole for example). Those spots are used for variations of the engine or used during assembly/testing. Now I'm not sure if you're aware, but the engines in our cars do use some oil. I understand the 6's are worse than the 8's. I talked with a 6 owner recently who told me that his will easily go through a litre or more between oil changes. There is a few reasons for this and I won't get into them. But this is why you see guys installing catch cans. To gather some of the "blow-by" oil and keep it from running through the system, richening the AFM and even getting into the filter. Some cars use oil more than others. Now on your ticking noise. Is it a light ticking that you hear on cold start up and then it goes away as the engine warms (sometimes in seconds, other times a min or so)? B/C that is common in many engines, even more so in cold weather. This is commonly referred to as piston slop. In simple terms, everything is cold, metals contract, and there is more "play" in the cylinders so for a few moments on cold start up the pistons (for the lack of a better term) "rattle" in the cylinders. This is normal and about the only "ticking" sound that is normal. If it's more than that, then you "could" have a problem.

But my suspicion is you don't have any problems other than maybe above normal oil consumption. There's ways to check that too. Don't fret my friend. I suspect your car is just fine. I think you were told a story either intentionally or unintentionally (likely the latter). Remember, I'm offering this advice without seeing your car. IF you don't trust your dealer (what dealer are you using?) then go to another dealer. Or, if you really think there is a problem and want someone you can trust, take it over to SPi in Oakville (you're in TO right?) and talk to Andrew. I'd be happy to look at it for you if you want to meet up.

Best of luck

[R6P]

Is this the plug you are talking about? If so it's just a tin cover that covers an inspection hole in the transmission bell housing. The only problem with the cover missing is that there would be the possibility of something getting caught up in the flywheel. It's not a drain plug, the only way something could leak from there would be if the engine's rear main seal was leaking, or a transmission fluid leak from the front pump or torque converter seal.

[sigma_1966]

Yes that's it.

Originally Posted by ChevyTech

Is this the plug you are talking about? If so it's just a tin cover that covers an inspection hole in the transmission bell housing. The only problem with the cover missing is that there would be the possibility of something getting caught up in the flywheel. It's not a drain plug, the only way something could leak from there would be if the engine's rear main seal was leaking, or a transmission fluid leak from the front pump or torque converter seal.
Attachment 220584

[R6P]

Originally Posted by sigma_1966

Yes that's it.

Nothing really to panic about by that missing. Is there anything leaking from that area now?

[sigma_1966]

There wasnt anything leaking that I saw.

Originally Posted by ChevyTech

Nothing really to panic about by that missing. Is there anything leaking from that area now?

[stratman2SSRS]

The jiffy lube guy need some more education about engines.
I really doubt you have anything to worry about.
Make sure the dealership gives you a new plug and documents that it was missing in case any other problems pop up.

[dragon22]

Manufacturers make terrific parts these day. But...trust me when I say that if you were driving with no oil in the engine, it would have been a disaster! First, you never had any lights come on. Your oil pressure never dropped and your engine temperature never increased. Correct?

All 3 of these things will occur if you are running without oil, plus the fact you will have an unmistakeable smell to get you wondering what the heck is going on.

I find it kind of humorous that the dealer didn't tell you what that plug is for. (Kinda makes me wonder about them).

You might want to take it to another dealer for a second opinion.

[Andrew@SPItuning]

If you are local we would be more than happy to give you a second opinion, give us a call.