What supsension upgrades to combat wheel hop??

[ironpeddler]

Hey guys and gals, want to know what suspension upgrades will be neeeded to combat wheel hop when you increase the rwhp & tq by about 200. Say 600 rwhp i would imagine that something will need to be done about wheel hop. I love GM but i seriously doubt they even considered wheel hop at 600 rwhp (and why would they). Any suggestions, thoughts...much appreciated.

[1320junkie]

Wheel hop on an IRS car can be controlled by the driver. Mine has exhibited no wheel hop in hundreds passes and none on the street. But I refrain from over-spinning the rear tires. I've seen several C5Zs, one C6 and one Caddy CTV break because the drivers let them hop and then stayed on the throttle. Don't dead hook the tires also don't side step the clutch on launch. In some non IRS applications it okay to just bang thru the gears clutch in clutch out..with this vehicle you want to feather it through first gear..if you feel wheel hop..get out of the throttle a little bit more until out of 1st..you will get the hang of it after about 5 passes..long story short "wheel-hop" in an IRS application can be a driver work around.

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by 1320junkie

Wheel hop on an IRS car can be controlled by the driver. Mine has exhibited no wheel hop in hundreds passes and none on the street. But I refrain from over-spinning the rear tires. I've seen several C5Zs, one C6 and one Caddy CTV break because the drivers let them hop and then stayed on the throttle. Don't dead hook the tires also don't side step the clutch on launch. In some non IRS applications it okay to just bang thru the gears clutch in clutch out..with this vehicle you want to feather it through first gear..if you feel wheel hop..get out of the throttle a little bit more until out of 1st..you will get the hang of it after about 5 passes..long story short "wheel-hop" in an IRS application can be a driver work around.

If you dead hook you're NOT going to hop. That's the definition of dead hook. Also, hooking is the only way you're going to pull good short times.

OP, the only thing I know about wheel hop comes from owning two GTOs, which are notorious for hopping. Wheel hop is part traction, part harmonics. It starts at the very edge of losing traction, hence the hop-skip-hop-skip. However, seeing as it's all rotating at the same time, harmonics makes it worse as you lay into the throttle and spin the wheels faster. GM tried to combat this with staggered diameter half shafts. It has seen decent success on the street, less so on the strip. I've seen ZR1s hop their way through 1st and 2nd enough times to know that it's not a complete solution, at least from the factory.

There are a number of things people have tried with varying degrees of success.

Drag radials.
Stiffer springs and shocks.
GMs staggered half shaft solution - a few GTO guys have tried a version of this. They've used G-Force axles, which are the same diameter but are heavier with heavier CV cages on one side only. Apparently it works great in the dry, not so much in the wet, but fine at the track for bolt-on applications.

It's been claimed that the rear suspension has been tested to "600hp", but there's a difference between laying down some rubber at stoplights with 600hp and trying to cut 1.6 60' with 600hp. I highly doubt GM did the latter, if at all, and THAT is what is going to break shit.

[1320junkie]

I was saying don't try and dead hook because when you do(if you are still stock) things are more likely to break. Wheelhop is caused by the tires intermittently gaining and loosing traction. Excessive spin is much better than wheelhop.

[1320junkie]

(1) Get the rear wheels hopping on launch or the 1-2 shift and then stay on the throttle. Great way to break an axle or the diff case.

(2) Heat the tires at the drags and then dry hop it up to the line. Another great way to break an axle or the diff case.

(3) Burnout dry tires at the drags. More torture for the rear.

(4) Try to heat the tires at the drags, botch it, then try it again without reapplying water to the rear tires. This glazes the clutch or break the rear.

(5) Mod the motor to above 390 rwhp and then do hard launches at the drags on DRs. The rear will hate that.

And I'll throw in two for the tranny:

(6) Brutalize the tranny with poorly timed shifts near the redline.

(7) Fail to follow the clutch fluid maintenance protocol; get the pedal woes and do strong shifts anyway.

Now, if you avoid the (1)-(7) driving errors, then you can probably make 500+ passes without breakage...like I did.

[ironpeddler]

Thx guys for the info...much appreciated.

[ironpeddler]

Originally Posted by LSxJunkie

It's been claimed that the rear suspension has been tested to "600hp", but there's a difference between laying down some rubber at stoplights with 600hp and trying to cut 1.6 60' with 600hp. I highly doubt GM did the latter, if at all, and THAT is what is going to break shit.

This is exactly what I am afraid of.

[PAUL SS]

Originally Posted by 1320junkie

I was saying don't try and dead hook because when you do(if you are still stock) things are more likely to break. Wheelhop is caused by the tires intermittently gaining and loosing traction. Excessive spin is much better than wheelhop.

Wheel hop is not caused by the tires gaining and loosing traction, it is caused by the rear axle winding up under hard acceleration and releasing when it returns to it's original position and the winds up again. As the tires grip the opposite and equal reaction is for the rear axle to move in the opposite direction of the tires. Also due to the drive shaft turning the diferential one direction one rear tire (left) will try to raise off the ground.

[1320junkie]

Originally Posted by Paul SS

Wheel hop is not caused by the tires gaining and loosing traction, it is caused by the rear axle winding up under hard acceleration and releasing when it returns to it's original position and the winds up again. As the tires grip the opposite and equal reaction is for the rear axle to move in the opposite direction of the tires. Also due to the drive shaft turning the diferential one direction one rear tire (left) will try to raise off the ground.

WHEEL HOP the wheels are hopping because they are gaining and losing traction...more common on stock tires less on drag radials and slicks..all as a result of lack of traction that causes other things to happen along the drivetrain.

Car alternates between obtaining and losing traction.

The sensation the driver feels is similar to driving over a series of railroad ties spaced about 6 inches to a foot apart. A bumpy, sometimes violently bumpy sensation. Can happen during burnouts, hard launches, or on 1-2, 2-3 shifts.

Some say that parts of the driveline actually twist somewhat due to the torsional forces, because keep in mind we are talking about two rear wheels when this is happening.

The up/down twisting force is enough to break driveline parts, usually manifest with a cracked differential case and since the diff is bolted to the tranny in our cars, sometimes the tranmission case and output shaft along with the differential output shafts are destroyed.

[Gentry78]

look at his name guys then the car he drives, i think he might know what he is talking about

[LSxJunkie]

Originally Posted by 1320junkie

(1) Get the rear wheels hopping on launch or the 1-2 shift and then stay on the throttle. Great way to break an axle or the diff case.

(2) Heat the tires at the drags and then dry hop it up to the line. Another great way to break an axle or the diff case.

(3) Burnout dry tires at the drags. More torture for the rear.

(4) Try to heat the tires at the drags, botch it, then try it again without reapplying water to the rear tires. This glazes the clutch or break the rear.

(5) Mod the motor to above 390 rwhp and then do hard launches at the drags on DRs. The rear will hate that.

And I'll throw in two for the tranny:

(6) Brutalize the tranny with poorly timed shifts near the redline.

(7) Fail to follow the clutch fluid maintenance protocol; get the pedal woes and do strong shifts anyway.

Now, if you avoid the (1)-(7) driving errors, then you can probably make 500+ passes without breakage...like I did.

If you're talking about drag radials, I wholeheartedly agree. However, things are MUCH different on street tires.