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Old 05-20-2011, 08:12 AM   #197
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I think the Z06 is about 150 pounds or so lighter. The ZR1 has the SC and some more sound deadener, I am not sure if the Carbon Package gives you the CF roof panel and roof bow or not, but it's not lighter enough to make up for the 130 HP shortfall. And with the brakes etc., the price of the Z06 starts to climb around $90,000 I think so at that point go big.
It still makes me very uncomfortable comparing a Mustang to a Corvette which is all the more reason to bring a Z28 to market. I think we made a lot of progression here especially in the body/styling department and some great ideas for the powertrain were brought up too. The Z06 is a vehicle for car enthusiast and I believe the Z28 could also fill those shoes. That also has me thinking that an LS7 would be a great choice for the Z28 but I personally still feel that a worked LS3 would ultimately be the best decision because there are just too many positives. There have been well over 3000 views on this thread and that means there is obviously some interest in the subject.

The bowtie delete we did on the 2013 Z28 concept does draw a strong resemblance to the 1969 Z28 as WYKOFF69Z said and I was wondering how you felt with our Z28 rendition so far. To me, the refresh is subtle and would be looked over by someone that wasn’t familiar with the 5th Gen. I particularly love the rear end, the reduction in overall length and overhang behind the rear wheels was definitely an improvement. The hood line was reduced to improve visibility and give the 5th Gen a more aggressive look. I love the reduction in the front end but I am curious as to whether or not the engine would have to be lowered or not. The reduction was between 2 and 3 inches and I feared that the engine would have to be mounted lower and that the whole frame would have to be altered. I am sure I could revise the hood itself to accommodate the engine but really want to keep the visibility if it was possible. We will work on the weight some over the weekend and see where a hypothetical Z28 stands, that way we can start doing figures for the rotor diameters. With all the new standard equipment coming on the 2012 Camaro's, we have no choice but to drastically remove weight from the Z28... My target curb weight is 3700lbs even (I know its crazy), that is about 200lbs less than the 2012 2SS...

Anyway, I am pretty excited about the concept, just wanted some feedback on it or some additional direction. There is a market for this type of Camaro and I feel that Camaro enthusiast need their version of a Z06… What do you think?

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Old 05-20-2011, 10:57 AM   #198
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Yes clean looking and aggressive at the same time.
But the enormous wheels have to go. Light weight 20x10's are fine with 295x35's all around. The short overhang looks good, however trunk space will be lost.
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Old 05-20-2011, 01:35 PM   #199
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Yes clean looking and aggressive at the same time.
But the enormous wheels have to go. Light weight 20x10's are fine with 295x35's all around. The short overhang looks good, however trunk space will be lost.
I love the looks, this refresh will definitely make the original 5th Gen owners jealous. The wheels are not my idea, if anyone has come to know what I am about they would know that I am totally against 20 inch wheels (19's as well). The Z28 would come with factory 19x9's front, 19x9.5's rear. Just by downsizing the wheels from 20's will see a nice weight loss and I say we could go with 255/40ZR19 front and 285/35ZR19. If we wanted to push for a 305/35ZR19 on the rear, we would have to go to a 10 inch wheel in the back which isn't a problem. The last I heard, GM was extremely strict on wheels when it comes to durability testing, that could make it difficult to find a 25lb forged wheel. I would love to see 25lb wheels on a factory Z28. At that weight, there would be almost 30lbs in weight saved in wheels alone. Briefly skimming over the tire weights for 255/285s, we could get about 50lbs from wheels and tires alone.

Trunk space: Uggg... this is something Car and Driver will throw a tantrum over, trunk space... Since we are doing a refresh, we could possibly try to come up with the extra trunk space somewhere else. We could try a little misdirection with the media... The truck opening on the Camaro is very small but if we incorporated a larger trunk opening/trunk lid into the refresh that reduces the overhang by 3-4 inches, maybe that would be a fair compromise. We could give an inch but take a mile, creating a bigger opening that people could effectively use the truck space they have. You have to think about the refresh though, we wouldn't take all of those 4 inches from the trunk, we could take some from the bumper (exterior) and some from the trunk.

Great observation though, something that Team Z would have to look into...


Edit: The 3-4 inch from the rear end was a guesstimation, it could possibly be more.. It was a decent size chunk that I pulled back though...
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Old 05-20-2011, 01:42 PM   #200
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I wouldn't mind if Team Camaro took a crack at the Z28 in 2013 under the current 5th Gen design. I think it would be great for the brand to release a Z28 and then offer an new Z28 the following year, refreshed. It's not like they won't sell them...
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Old 05-20-2011, 02:23 PM   #201
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I reduced the frame below the drivers door again, this is the farthest I can go (and the front splitter now matches the side splitter). I'm not sure how crazy GM is about reducing the steel in that area because of side impact but it really makes the car look slim. The top pic is of our Z28, the bottom pic is of the 2006 concept Camaro. The red circles highlight the areas that you can really see the difference. The final reduction might be too much but it is not problem to put that extra inch back on... there is about 5 inches taken out of the side. The third pic of the Z28 is before the additional inch or two was taken out out the sides. The 3rd pic has also been shortened...
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Old 05-20-2011, 02:32 PM   #202
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looks more streamline.....i likes it
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Old 05-20-2011, 03:06 PM   #203
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I think that the LS376 from GM performance is the perfect engine for the Z28. The LS376 produces 480 horsepower and 475 pound feet of torque at 4500 RPM. The questions are... is it street legal and what transmission do we use? I think if we offer GM performance parts on the car and give SS owners the opportunity to make gradual upgrades at their own pace, the Z28 could also make a great poster car for GMP. The SSX was suppose to start the ball rolling but I haven't even seen the ball yet. First, we offer the LS376 that is available from GMPP, then you can advertise the cam and all the other upgradable parts via the Z28. If GM can get 480hp/475tq from a cammed LS3, what would happen with an intake? Just think, if every SS owner at least upgraded the cam and intake how much extra that would be. The intake would sell way more than a cam would... Something tells me that the LS376 isn't street legal...
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Old 05-20-2011, 04:11 PM   #204
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I reduced the frame below the drivers door again, this is the farthest I can go (and the front splitter now matches the side splitter). I'm not sure how crazy GM is about reducing the steel in that area because of side impact but it really makes the car look slim. The top pic is of our Z28, the bottom pic is of the 2006 concept Camaro. The red circles highlight the areas that you can really see the difference. The final reduction might be too much but it is not problem to put that extra inch back on... there is about 5 inches taken out of the side. The third pic of the Z28 is before the additional inch or two was taken out out the sides. The 3rd pic has also been shortened...
ride hight is way to high
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Old 05-20-2011, 04:37 PM   #205
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I think that the LS376 from GM performance is the perfect engine for the Z28. The LS376 produces 480 horsepower and 475 pound feet of torque at 4500 RPM. The questions are... is it street legal and what transmission do we use? I think if we offer GM performance parts on the car and give SS owners the opportunity to make gradual upgrades at their own pace, the Z28 could also make a great poster car for GMP. The SSX was suppose to start the ball rolling but I haven't even seen the ball yet. First, we offer the LS376 that is available from GMPP, then you can advertise the cam and all the other upgradable parts via the Z28. If GM can get 480hp/475tq from a cammed LS3, what would happen with an intake? Just think, if every SS owner at least upgraded the cam and intake how much extra that would be. The intake would sell way more than a cam would... Something tells me that the LS376 isn't street legal...
Its just a LS3 with a GM CAM and prob a little better tune
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Old 05-20-2011, 05:17 PM   #206
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Its just a LS3 with a GM CAM and prob a little better tune
I don't think it will pass state inspections. :(
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Old 05-20-2011, 10:53 PM   #207
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Pill, it's looking pretty good. My thoughts are there is too much curvature in the front splitter/air dam.

Now the real question is what do you think a "freshening" is? You've changed every exterior panel but you really haven't changed the basic character of the car. I realize you are a bit stuck with photoshop but if freshen means the same as the Ford Fusion redo last year that is lamps and fascia. But if you mean new doors and body panels then would you go further?
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Old 05-21-2011, 07:32 AM   #208
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ride hight is way to high
I see that now on "Camaro32a", the picture below it "Camaro31" was two copies before 32a. We will roll the concept back to Camaro31 because I totally agree that the ride height appears too high.
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Old 05-21-2011, 07:37 AM   #209
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I don't think it will pass state inspections.
Then maybe our LS3R needs a milder cam and a high rise intake? I would still love to have LS9 heads on an LS3, optimized for higher compression/naturally aspirated to push the engine well into mid 7000 rpm limit. Or maybe try the prototype DI L92 heads, the airflow wouldn't be as superior as the LS3's but that L92 achieved well over 450hp...
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Old 05-21-2011, 07:49 AM   #210
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Pill, it's looking pretty good. My thoughts are there is too much curvature in the front splitter/air dam.

Now the real question is what do you think a "freshening" is? You've changed every exterior panel but you really haven't changed the basic character of the car. I realize you are a bit stuck with photoshop but if freshen means the same as the Ford Fusion redo last year that is lamps and fascia. But if you mean new doors and body panels then would you go further?
I will see if I can straighten the splitter out later on tonight, Blizz brought it to my attention as well. Freshing has come to be known as updating the look and has also come to be a canned fascia and headlight/taillight revision. It doesn't necessarily have to be about looks all the time. The major concern when I photoshopped this Camaro was to pay special attention to not destroy the original look of the 5th Gen. As the intentions of mid model refreshes have become primarily concerned with form, our mid model refresh has made function priority. Although there are some differences in form, reducing weight, reducing the physical size, improving aerodynamics and utilizing body panels to channel airflow where we can use it has taken the main stage while at the same time, updating the look of the 5th Gen and all the while staying true... As you said, I am severely limited while photoshopping but it still turned out to be a pretty cool looking product...

Thanks for the feedback, we will do some experimenting tonight if we have time...
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