Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Emblempros
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > Technical Camaro Topics > Suspension / Brakes / Chassis


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-13-2010, 01:50 AM   #29
Info@PeddersUSA.com
 
Info@PeddersUSA.com's Avatar
 
Drives: 5th Gen Rental
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New England
Posts: 1,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slammer View Post
Actually the bump steer was there before I did this and is better now with the setting I have
It still retains full travel

They have bump steer from factory when you lower them
the challenge with your statement is the movement of the outer rear does not pull the upper control arm in that much, but rather tilt the top of the knuckle fore/aft. In fact, this bushing moves so much that you can see the top of the knuckle move 1/2 or so fore and aft. The reason for this is the forward pivot assembly does not allow in/out movement of any kind. This movement is more like making a caster adjustment.

To move the camber significantly, you would have to move the outer rear a very serious amount outward; Way more than what I think you indicated. It is interesting that this exchange you and I are having, is the only time I think this has ever been discussed. I would imagine no one even knows about. I have measured front and rear bump steer after following a TrackII install, and the guidelines in the PDF below and they were nearly nothing. I have not checked it bump steer when adjusted in the opposite direction.

Now Holden does recommend to pull the rear bushing assembly outward to reduce rear bump steer to the max.


Here is an internal info letter that describes the bump steer issue for the rear:



Mike
dms
Info@PeddersUSA.com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2010, 04:13 AM   #30
Slammer
 
Slammer's Avatar
 
Drives: G8 Maloo
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 30
I had heard about this memo but had seen it
Will do that
I have to change that bush anyway so will do this at the same time
Good info
Slammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2010, 11:56 PM   #31
Avalnch

 
Avalnch's Avatar
 
Drives: Rally Yellow Camaro+Avalanche
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,106
That's what I was told too...

Got back today from my good friend's garage. John's been doing alignment for 20+ years and his shop has a sophisticated, laser guided alignment machine.

The first thing John says after getting the Camaro up in the air is: "no front camber adjustment". He points out the top and bottom stock strut bolts and says they are not meant to be loosened and played with to adjust for camber. My old Gen3 had regular bottom strut bolts, but the Gen5 has these serrated, lock nuts that Johnny says will cause the front suspension to come out of alignment(?). After a bit of looking around, John pointed out the camber bolt holes and says I need adjustment bolts. But he also says it can be done with adjustable lower control arms too? I trust John and we left the front camber at stock.

But all over the Camaro5 website, everyone says front camber is doable without special parts. So what gives you guys? How is front camber adjustment achieved? I'm seriously thinking about the Pedders alignment bolt kit now. But can you Pedder guys tell me if they come with comprehensive instructions? Especially about elongating the castor adjustment hole? Anyone make adjustable lower control arms?

John observed that the Camaro's front suspension is "European like" with double ball jointed knuckles and the adjustment holes. After I told him the lineage of the Zeta platform Camaro, he's more convinced that it's not a "typical" pony car setup. John works mostly on BMWs, MBs and exotics. He was doing a recently lowered 2007 Aston Martin DB9 before my car went up. To him, "it's all the same".

The front camber at stock measured out at -1.1 left and -1.0 right. We set the front toe to zero (factory was -0.15 left and 0.35 right!).

Rears have camber and toe adjustments, so we ended up with -1.1 camber (max'd out) and total +0.2 toe in.

I can feel the rear being more planted, but it can definitly do with way more negative camber. The steering response is also improved with the zero front toe.
__________________
Vengeance Kaotik Cam, C.A.I., ARH LT, Pypes Cat Back, ZL1 Shifter+2012LS3VERT bushing, Quantum Brake Ducts, JDP Tow Hook Scorch Yellow Trim Kit, Shark Fin, AAC DRLs+ABLs+SMDs, ZTA Rear Spoiler, R.Y. 1LE Splitter. Pfadt coilovers, camber plates, trailing arms, Pegasus Solid Subframe. Pedders ZL1 barz, radius arm & steering rack bushings. BMR adjustable toe-rods. Hotchkis Max Chassis Brace. ZL1 GMPP Driveline Upgrade. TurnOne P/S pump. CTS-V 6 pistons.
447 HP @ 6180 RPM / 418 TQ @ 5100 RPM
Avalnch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2010, 12:32 AM   #32
DMSDesign
Suspension Specialist
 
Drives: 2011 Camaro
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 65
The front end camber is adjustable. The issue is there is not adjusting screw for it to make it simple.

Having the rear cambers at the -1.1 degrees is great on keeping the back end "planted" as you said. But it does increase understeer, which is dominate in the Camaro. Your overall handling will be improved if you can adjust your rear cambers to equal approx 50% of the your front cambers

mike
dms
DMSDesign is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2010, 02:07 AM   #33
Avalnch

 
Avalnch's Avatar
 
Drives: Rally Yellow Camaro+Avalanche
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMSDesign View Post
The front end camber is adjustable. The issue is there is not adjusting screw for it to make it simple.

Having the rear cambers at the -1.1 degrees is great on keeping the back end "planted" as you said. But it does increase understeer, which is dominate in the Camaro. Your overall handling will be improved if you can adjust your rear cambers to equal approx 50% of the your front cambers

mike
dms
Thanks Mike,
I'm aware of the understeer issue, but for slaloming, understeer is preferrable to oversteer.

So, can you explain to me what needs to be loosened for the front camber adjustment. My friend says you can't undo the top strut tower bolt or the bottom two strut bolts. I now understand the use of the adjusting bolts, but where are the front camber adjustment points so I can enlighten my friend?
__________________
Vengeance Kaotik Cam, C.A.I., ARH LT, Pypes Cat Back, ZL1 Shifter+2012LS3VERT bushing, Quantum Brake Ducts, JDP Tow Hook Scorch Yellow Trim Kit, Shark Fin, AAC DRLs+ABLs+SMDs, ZTA Rear Spoiler, R.Y. 1LE Splitter. Pfadt coilovers, camber plates, trailing arms, Pegasus Solid Subframe. Pedders ZL1 barz, radius arm & steering rack bushings. BMR adjustable toe-rods. Hotchkis Max Chassis Brace. ZL1 GMPP Driveline Upgrade. TurnOne P/S pump. CTS-V 6 pistons.
447 HP @ 6180 RPM / 418 TQ @ 5100 RPM
Avalnch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2010, 11:52 AM   #34
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,254
Take a close look at this picture. You will ssee the camber screw installed in the knuckle above the brake rotor.



you can order the Camaro alignment bolt kit from Pedders or just use a bolt as a temporary adjustment tool in the shop. Loosen the clevis bolts and turn the screw in to reduce camber and out to increase camber.
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2010, 01:52 PM   #35
Avalnch

 
Avalnch's Avatar
 
Drives: Rally Yellow Camaro+Avalanche
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,106
Thanks JusticePete!
__________________
Vengeance Kaotik Cam, C.A.I., ARH LT, Pypes Cat Back, ZL1 Shifter+2012LS3VERT bushing, Quantum Brake Ducts, JDP Tow Hook Scorch Yellow Trim Kit, Shark Fin, AAC DRLs+ABLs+SMDs, ZTA Rear Spoiler, R.Y. 1LE Splitter. Pfadt coilovers, camber plates, trailing arms, Pegasus Solid Subframe. Pedders ZL1 barz, radius arm & steering rack bushings. BMR adjustable toe-rods. Hotchkis Max Chassis Brace. ZL1 GMPP Driveline Upgrade. TurnOne P/S pump. CTS-V 6 pistons.
447 HP @ 6180 RPM / 418 TQ @ 5100 RPM
Avalnch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2010, 04:36 PM   #36
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,254
Tom,
You are welcome.

The camber screw specs are M10-1.5 X 40mm and any bolt will do on the alignment rack. Once the camber has been set the bolt can be removed. If the camber screws from the G8 were readily available you could use those too. If you use a Pedders camber screw or any screw other than the OEM screw it is important that you load it up with blue LocTite so it doesn't come loose while driving. As it has no real load on it there is little to keep it tight. Our technical term is goobber it up with the blue stuff

Pedders didn't invent the 5th Gen Camaro screw, we just tell people how to use it
JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2010, 10:27 AM   #37
JusticePete
 
JusticePete's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro Justice
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,254
Here is a picture of a 'goobered' up Camaro Camber Screw

JusticePete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2020, 04:45 AM   #38
HellionDarkLord
 
Drives: chevrolet camaro LT
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Washington State
Posts: 29
I bought the front camber bolts, Now what I need is a sheet to have the car aligned to. I don't understand the -1.1 and stuff. I'm going to take it to a shop, but I need what the guy at the shop said is a sheet full of alignment specs.

Thanks for any help.
HellionDarkLord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2020, 05:29 AM   #39
Black_SS10
SomeguyK
 
Black_SS10's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: FL
Posts: 1,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by HellionDarkLord View Post
I bought the front camber bolts, Now what I need is a sheet to have the car aligned to. I don't understand the -1.1 and stuff. I'm going to take it to a shop, but I need what the guy at the shop said is a sheet full of alignment specs.

Thanks for any help.
Aggressive street alignment. The OEM specs are slightly incorrect.
Attached Images
 
__________________
Forged 376, E85, milled GMPP ported heads, Night Fury, Vmax TB, GPI rod mod manifold,Improved racing,Melling,ATI, DSE, DW, BTR, Smith Brothers, McLeod twin RXT, Technostalgia tail lights,Oracle, Aeroforce, MGW shifter,Vararam OTR intake,Tick,Elite CC,Kooks headers/HFC,Flowmaster, Pegasus subframe bushings,BMR trailing & toe arms,Z28 UCA bushings,Zl1 rear sway bar,Prothane,BMR,Goodridge brake lines,Ridetech HQ coilovers,3.91,Trutrac,billet caps,DSS axles,HE offest,built TR6060,1LE diffuser,Havoc spoiler,SSclones,20in MRR 017, Pirelli P Zero, Nitto NT05R
Black_SS10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2020, 06:05 AM   #40
HellionDarkLord
 
Drives: chevrolet camaro LT
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Washington State
Posts: 29
Thanks for that Alignment sheet! Oh, that's for a 2010 Camaro LT? (Just trying to make sure!)
HellionDarkLord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2020, 09:26 AM   #41
Black_SS10
SomeguyK
 
Black_SS10's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: FL
Posts: 1,696
Quote:
Originally Posted by HellionDarkLord View Post
Thanks for that Alignment sheet! Oh, that's for a 2010 Camaro LT? (Just trying to make sure!)
For any 5th gen camaro.
__________________
Forged 376, E85, milled GMPP ported heads, Night Fury, Vmax TB, GPI rod mod manifold,Improved racing,Melling,ATI, DSE, DW, BTR, Smith Brothers, McLeod twin RXT, Technostalgia tail lights,Oracle, Aeroforce, MGW shifter,Vararam OTR intake,Tick,Elite CC,Kooks headers/HFC,Flowmaster, Pegasus subframe bushings,BMR trailing & toe arms,Z28 UCA bushings,Zl1 rear sway bar,Prothane,BMR,Goodridge brake lines,Ridetech HQ coilovers,3.91,Trutrac,billet caps,DSS axles,HE offest,built TR6060,1LE diffuser,Havoc spoiler,SSclones,20in MRR 017, Pirelli P Zero, Nitto NT05R
Black_SS10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2020, 10:37 AM   #42
KillboyPowerhead
 
Drives: 2015 Z/22
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by HellionDarkLord View Post
I bought the front camber bolts, Now what I need is a sheet to have the car aligned to. I don't understand the -1.1 and stuff. I'm going to take it to a shop, but I need what the guy at the shop said is a sheet full of alignment specs.

Thanks for any help.
Front camber can be adjusted from the factory without camber bolts. The bottom bolt hole of the strut mount is slotted, and there is a threaded hole in the knuckle to push off the strut for fine tuning (requires the bolt size mentioned above by JusticePete - doesn't come with the car). If you need more camber than this (if you're racing) it would be safest to use camber plates.
__________________
K&N Typhoon Cold Air Intake, Ported 80mm Throttle Body/Intake Manifolds/Manifold Spacer; Solo Performance High-Flow Cats, Cat-back Exhaust; Vitesse Motorsports Throttle Controller; Elite Engineering E2 Catch Can; BC Racing BR Coilovers; JPSS Delrin Radius Rod Bushing Inserts, Sway Bars; Pegasus Aluminum Rear Cradle Bushings, Camber/Caster Plates; Z/28 Toe Links, Trailing Arms, Upper Control Arm Bushings, Rear Shock Mounts
KillboyPowerhead is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rear camber kit "is it me or....." wishucould00 Suspension / Brakes / Chassis 22 10-22-2013 03:35 PM
Pfadt Introduces New Front Camber Plate Kit. Available NOW! PfadtRacing Suspension / Brakes / Chassis 43 02-07-2013 12:40 PM
Best prices on Eibach pro-kit springs & question on camber adjuster kit topgun1 Suspension / Brakes / Chassis 4 10-14-2009 06:00 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.