Death of the New Z28 Camaro

[nUcLeArEnVoY]

Originally Posted by chevydude26

you know...it bothers me that the execs cut the budget from 25 million to 12 million....

Damn these democrats and tree huggers..i swear we need to take this country back

i will seriously start some major campaign if they kill the camaro over this crap...come on the v6 is getting 27 mpg....and anybody who buys a v8 never cared about mpg's

gm don't buy into the hype start making commercials asking for congress to drill

if gm gets on the ball we will start something

I resent that, I'm a democrat.

Just screwing around. I AM a democrat, but I think this has gone too far. The times, they are a'changin - bigger isn't better anymore. The thing about other countries is that they don't use cars to show off status or image as much as we do, so I guess that's what this is all about. All these green cars just don't look cool or perform cool... speed costs money, I guess.

Either way, I'll take this article with a pinch of salt. I was more scared about the Camaro being killed anyway, since I don't plan on getting a Z28, I'm just going for the SS.

[stovt001]

So you being a democrat I'm curious what you think of Obama's insistence that we can double the mileage of cars with parts off the shelf. If he gets elected he'll force the automakers to do just that.

[Captain Awesome]

Originally Posted by stovt001

So you being a democrat I'm curious what you think of Obama's insistence that we can double the mileage of cars with parts off the shelf. If he gets elected he'll force the automakers to do just that.

I'm SURE we can do that. All we have to do is eliminate dead weight like Catalytic Converters, Air bags, 5MPH Bumpers, Side Door Beams, Passenger Seatbelt sensors, child locks, etc.

[nUcLeArEnVoY]

Originally Posted by stovt001

So you being a democrat I'm curious what you think of Obama's insistence that we can double the mileage of cars with parts off the shelf. If he gets elected he'll force the automakers to do just that.

I REALLY hope this doesn't make me sound stupid but... I never listened to that speech, what do you mean? I don't hear ANY of the speeches.

I'm a democrat in the respect that I'm liberal. I'm a liberal person and I support almost anything anybody does - it's their life, do what they want, so that usually translates to being a democrat. I honestly don't take politics that seriously. I look at it more realistically - there's nothing I can do about it, I'm just one person... so why complain? It's a waste of breath, and GOD forbid I set someone off, then I'll waste even more, not to mention I can't stand arguing.

All I know is that until technology is advanced enough for them to suck extraordinary power and awesome sound and torque out of a combustion engine burning something other than gas, green cars will remain bland for the most part, and yes, that is coming from a car lover sensibly so. We may all want a Camaro, but we're still a fanbase, we're not America. The overwhelming majority want a fuel-efficient vehicle which, yes, in the midst of these absurd prices is the smart thing to want. I never said I was doing the right thing when I spent 11K on a 78' Trans Am that I found out had a rusted out gas tank causing it to stall from rust flakes clogging the fuel filter, but it was the car lover in me.

The point I'm trying to reach though, is I just want my damn Camaro and I want to enjoy it for what it is: a fast, fun, awesome-looking machine. Spending a crapload of money for gasoline on your Camaro to me is like buying the most expensive foods and toys for your favorite dog. It's worth it if you love it.

[stovt001]

By the way I just want to be clear, I wasn't attempting to attack you for being attached to the CAFE party. I was seriously curious if you agreed with that position (assuming you're for BHO). Being a Republican there are certainly many things in my party platform I don't agree with. The funny thing is, I'm Republican for about the same reason you say you're a Democrat. I've always seen the Left and the Democratic party as telling me what I can and can't drive, what I can and can't believe, etc. I think that makes us both more on the libertarian side than anything. But now we're very . Sorry mods.

[Xanthos]

Originally Posted by nUcLeArEnVoY

The point I'm trying to reach though, is I just want my damn Camaro and I want to enjoy it for what it is: a fast, fun, awesome-looking machine. Spending a crapload of money for gasoline on your Camaro to me is like buying the most expensive foods and toys for your favorite dog. It's worth it if you love it.

- Xanthos

P.S. - I actually do consider myself to be a part of the libertarian party, which means I tend to vote democratic, but I have voted republican before due to certain issues.

[nUcLeArEnVoY]

Originally Posted by stovt001

By the way I just want to be clear, I wasn't attempting to attack you for being attached to the CAFE party. I was seriously curious if you agreed with that position (assuming you're for BHO). Being a Republican there are certainly many things in my party platform I don't agree with. The funny thing is, I'm Republican for about the same reason you say you're a Democrat. I've always seen the Left and the Democratic party as telling me what I can and can't drive, what I can and can't believe, etc. I think that makes us both more on the libertarian side than anything. But now we're very . Sorry mods.

I don't like the CAFE standards at all. The only justification I will give them is that they mean well. It's nice to save the world and spend less on gas but man... it's all happening so... fast! (LOL!) I love fast cars and muscle cars... I love that smell of carbon and old vinyl when I go to car shows. I mean... can this all slow down just a bit? Give us some room to breath? This time last year in my neck of the woods, prices were still under $3.00 a gallon.

Oh well. It's the way of the world. All I know is that I got my lemon squisher ready and rarin' to go.

[stovt001]

It would be fun to take a poll of the political leanings of Camaro5 members; more detailed than Republican/Conservative vs. Democrat/Liberal. Throw some libertarian, statists, etc in there. But anyway...

Yes, we're a unique breed of people. We'll willing to spend more money on our cars because they're not just transportation, they're also our passion/hobby/whatever you want to call it. Most people spend the minimum to meet their transportation utility needs, reliability, and comfort standards, which is just fine. What I worry about is with all these normal people demanding ultimate economy, so many people forget that people like us still deserve the right and ability to drive the cars that interest us.

[The_Blur]

I understand the frustration with new regulations, but don't blame the government for forcing car companies to be more conservationist. There is a widespread movement favoring cleaner emissions, and much of that is grassroots. Sure, we aren't hardcore about it here, but we can tolerate a 36-mpg car with a lot of horsepower just as much as we can tolerate a 12-mpg car with a lot of horsepower.

For performance brands, like Chevrolet, the goal for their prominent vehicles is horsepower. Chevrolet tends to be ahead of the curve, but some brands would likely slack in the environmental department. All the government is doing is keeping the market moving toward higher efficiency. This benefits more than hippies. Allow me to explain.

If we can produce high-efficiency, high-horsepower combustion engines, we can use that technology in every sector of production. This benefits everyone by lowering costs of fuel over time since everyone from drivers to production facilities will have to pay less for fuel. CAFE regulations are just giving companies a push in that direction.

We have had technology that has not progressed in efficiency for a long time. As lately as the fourth generation Camaro, the V8 has had mediocre gas mileage that could be better, as proven by the 110-mpg Mustang that someone built. The technology is readily available, but no one seems to be pushing for a high-horsepower, high-efficiency motor from GM, Ford, or Chrysler even though those are America's V8 champions. For most buyers, horsepower, exhaust note, and torque are the top priorities of V8 buyers. If you demanded higher efficiency, maybe it would already be there. All CAFE regulations do is promote these regulations for societal advancement in the technology sector.

[chevydude26]

Originally Posted by nUcLeArEnVoY

I don't like the CAFE standards at all. The only justification I will give them is that they mean well. It's nice to save the world and spend less on gas but man... it's all happening so... fast! (LOL!) I love fast cars and muscle cars... I love that smell of carbon and old vinyl when I go to car shows. I mean... can this all slow down just a bit? Give us some room to breath? This time last year in my neck of the woods, prices were still under $3.00 a gallon.

Oh well. It's the way of the world. All I know is that I got my lemon squisher ready and rarin' to go.

cafe standards is just communism and not what our founding fathers intended

let the market decide if a certain type of car should die...we don't need the government telling us or our companies how they should make cars

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

I understand the frustration with new regulations, but don't blame the government for forcing car companies to be more conservationist. There is a widespread movement favoring cleaner emissions, and much of that is grassroots. Sure, we aren't hardcore about it here, but we can tolerate a 36-mpg car with a lot of horsepower just as much as we can tolerate a 12-mpg car with a lot of horsepower.

For performance brands, like Chevrolet, the goal for their prominent vehicles is horsepower. Chevrolet tends to be ahead of the curve, but some brands would likely slack in the environmental department. All the government is doing is keeping the market moving toward higher efficiency. This benefits more than hippies. Allow me to explain.

If we can produce high-efficiency, high-horsepower combustion engines, we can use that technology in every sector of production. This benefits everyone by lowering costs of fuel over time since everyone from drivers to production facilities will have to pay less for fuel. CAFE regulations are just giving companies a push in that direction.

If people didn't force the company with their buying habits to make this a priority then why is the gov forcing it upon it's people? sounds like big brother to me. I don't know what's best for me so the gov is telling me what is best for me. sorry the gov stepped in where it shouldn't have IMHO.

[boxmonkeyracing]

Originally Posted by chevydude26

cafe standards is just communism and not what our founding fathers intended

let the market decide if a certain type of car should die...we don't need the government telling us or our companies how they should make cars

wow that just happened. two posts that relate closely together at the same time. . .how'd that happen?

[stovt001]

I gotta agree. I prefer the market to dictate the decisions companies make, not a government that "knows better than us". With gas prices the way they are, the average car buyer has plenty of motivation to buy more efficient cars, and the manufacturers have more than enough incentive to meet that demand. Honda's lineup hasn't changed since the new CAFE laws were introduced, and they're selling cars faster than they can make them. If the automakers care about sales (which they do) then they'll do their best to have similar lineups to meet that profitable demand. At the same time, they'll recognize the demand from people like me and many other people here. We're willing to pay more for gas/find alternatives for daily commutes in order to have a faster, funner car. CAFE regulations screw us just to accomplish what the free market would otherwise accomplish.

[OldTimer]

I certainly do not want to jump on the doom sayers band wagon, but, if we dont hear a very quick "bullshit" from fbodfather very soon it would appear this is true. It would not shock me if so. GM is going to be fighting for their life. They cannot afford to build anything they can't sell 100% of without discounting. We love the camaro and many of us want the gaz guzzler, but, are there enough "other" people out there to buy what's left over? GM is going to build what they think they can sell. If they do it right, the camaro could end up turning the company around. As much as we want GM to ignore the realities of todays economy, they are in business to make a profit and wont build something that is going to lose them money. On the other hand, they could make the Z28 an option. After all, it is up to the individual consumer if he/she elects to buy a gas guzzling car. That way GM cannot be accused of feeding the energy crisis. I doubt very seriously if BMW will quit selling their M cars. There are always going to be high performance cars available to buy. It would be a shame if GM did not participate to some extent with the camaro.