Track Day Brakes 1LE

[Dr. Evil]

I dont have a lot of experience with the camaro yet. In my last 2 vettes (a 90 and a 96) during track days a set of SS lines, good pads and fluid were plenty. I realize its a much lighter car but in one instance at Hallett in Oklahoma I got black flagged. I got the brakes so hot the rubber dust boots were on fire. I still never had any fade and was late braking every corner. I was in a heated "dual" with a modded Porche 930

[Lumino1LE]

I have tracked my 1LE extensively, considering how old it is and how many miles I have on it, and the stock Brembo brakes are great for both HPDE and autocross! You read that right - great. I have tracked my 1LE at Summit Point 2 times this year at HPDE events with no problems with either braking or fading. I did replace the fluid with DOT 4, but no issues.

One of the events I ran at was an instructor's clinic where I ran for 4 hours in one day and no issues. After that 4 hour event, my pads finally wore down and I ended up replacing them with Hawk DTC 60s. But, I also purchased the stock pads again to use on the street - the Hawks were too noisy for the daily use.

BTW, I ordered the replacement OEM pads from GMPartsdirect.com and they are real Brembo pads made in Italy.

Hope my experience helps you decide. You'll do fine and will enjoy the heck out of your car!

[Dropspeed]

Originally Posted by Mgizzle

Try the stock pads first man. You shouldnt need anything but racing brake fluid and a good alignment. Unless you are schumacher running 10/10ths at the track, 20+ laps, with an ambient of 100F you will be OK. I ran one track event stock pads and racing blie fluid and am going again tomorrow. This way I will know for sure if I need a brake upgrade and so far I dont.

Do not go to lighter rotors, you need the stock thermal mass. If u really want to upgrade get the 6 piston V/ZL1 brakes and rotors and you are set for ever.

Finally, switching pads from track to street can cause a lot of issues with the rotors and the brake pedal feeling bad.

I agree and this is what I am going to do. 15+ years instructing and racing has taught me that people often throw $ at cars to fix nonexistent issues. I also run at track events for free (I do put my life in the students hands as a trade off) so I have no issues getting a feel for the car and pulling it off the track if there are any suspected problems. NOW big brake upgrades are a great investment, but not always needed

Rotors: I ran a 3400lb car with 4 piston Brembos and always ran stock, thick, heavy, non slotted or drilled rotors for cooling because they worked with no issues. There are lighter and fancier ones but they are not needed.

In regards to the brake fade comment in the S5 above. I was not there and am only commenting based on what you posted, but I will say if you almost hit someone else at an HPDE because of a fade issue you May have been over driving the car at that point in time. Always always always expect the unexpected on a race track and have 3 back up plans to escape any given situation. ( Left, Right, or Stop) and it sounds like you did one of them.

I will report back after next weekend and let everyone know how the car worked on the stock set-up with ATE fluid in it.

[So Cal Camaro]

Make sure you bleed your brakes between events to ensure you have no issues at the track...

[Jim968]

Motul 600 is far superior to ATE.

Hawk HT10's or DTC 60/70's will be MUCH better on the track than the HP pluses, although they're not good for the street. You'll love running a dedicated track pad so much that you won't mind the small extra effort to swap back to a street pad when you get home from the track.

[Dropspeed]

Originally Posted by Jim968

Motul 600 is far superior to ATE.
.

Is this based on facts or an opinion?

I have run ATE Super Blue in my last 4 track cars and two race cars with zero fluid issues and without bleeding during a race weekend. I like the super blue as it is easy to see when the stock fluid is run out and the blues fills the lines....when you bleed it a second time you just grab the Yellow and run that through the lines and so on.

I have never used Motul but have heard good things as well...

-Matt

[Jim968]

Originally Posted by Dropspeed

Is this based on facts or an opinion?

Facts. I have extensive experience with both fluids. ATE boils in my race car and Motul RB600 doesn't. The specs prove it out:

ATE dry boiling point 536, wet boiling point 396

Motul RB600 dry boiling point 593, wet boiling point 420

If you're not boiling your ATE you're not trying hard enough

[CHMSC]

Since no one has answered your other question I will.

As far as a remote resivoir, I would suggest doing it since it will keep your brake fluid much cleaner and prevent ABS issues down the road. I put in the tick stainless high flow clutch line, ideal garage high flow master clutch cylinder and JDP's remote resivoir. My clutch problems are gone like the second gear grind and the clutch pedal not wanting to return all the way up after depressing it under high revs. Yes, you can use motul as clutch fluid.

I would also suggest changing the trans fluid. I used GM fluid to keep my warranty but it helped a ton and my shifting is way smother now.

Here is a pic with trans fluid, rear diff fluid and additive part numbers in case you want to do the same.

[Dropspeed]

Originally Posted by Jim968

Facts. I have extensive experience with both fluids. ATE boils in my race car and Motul RB600 doesn't. The specs prove it out:

ATE dry boiling point 536, wet boiling point 396

Motul RB600 dry boiling point 593, wet boiling point 420

If you're not boiling your ATE you're not trying hard enough

Or I have had sufficient cooling and the proper set-up

Yes, both wet and dry boiling points are higher, but only marginally. Without knowing your specs and set-up it doesn't mean you don't have another issue with cooling, brakes size vs weight of the car ect that is causing the fluid to boil. If you are within 60 degree of your boiling point I am willing to bet there is another variable effecting the temps.

What does your race car weight, what is the brake set-up and at what track or tracks?

-Matt

[Mgizzle]

If u dont mind the cost get the motul. Castrol SRF is great too but problem with both is they are hard to find locally and u need three four bottles to bleed entire system. Ate is more readly available and comes in 1 liter cans enough for entire system plus some.

I would highly suggest AGAINST titanium shims. Ti does not transfer heat, which means ur rotor and pad will have to take on more heat. This is not good, entire point of better brake fluid is so u dont have to use ti shims etc and allow a higher heat capacity of ur brake corner.

Finally, the 1LE has a small disc splash shield like the ZL1, ducts will not work with it. If u do go for ducts, dont use the fog lamp cover for air inlet, use the front lower grill portion like the zl1. Day and night in how fast and cool ur air is for rotor cooling.

[Jim968]

Originally Posted by Dropspeed

Or I have had sufficient cooling and the proper set-up

Yes, both wet and dry boiling points are higher, but only marginally. Without knowing your specs and set-up it doesn't mean you don't have another issue with cooling, brakes size vs weight of the car ect that is causing the fluid to boil. If you are within 60 degree of your boiling point I am willing to bet there is another variable effecting the temps.

What does your race car weight, what is the brake set-up and at what track or tracks?

-Matt

My race car is a Porsche 968. Primary track is Mid Ohio, but I've been all over. Minimum weight with driver ranges from 3,000 to 3,236 depending on which series I'm running. The car has the big brake option, which is Brembos that are roughly the same size as the ones on our Camaros. Cooling is ducted from inlets on the front of the car.

Trust me the car is set up. In it I have 32 class wins, two regional championships and one national championship. Many of my competitors are using Castrol SRF which is the best fluid out there, but ridiculously expensive. The rest of us use Motul. I don't know any serious racer who is still using ATE.

What car(s) are you racing?

[bannonm]

Originally Posted by summit1le

1.Front 3 inch cooling ducts connected to dust sheild. As others have done on Camaro 5

2.Giro Disc titanium pad sheilds

I ran 2.5 inch ducts and the duct still rubbed on the control arms. I have never heard anyone using 3 inch ducts. I'm not sure how you could even route it without having clearance problems. 2.5 inch was hard enough.

Check out Hard Brakes TI pad shields too. I have front and backs and they really seemed to help. Nothing scientific, but after doing a run I could touch my wheels by the hubs whereas before it was too hot to touch.

[Dropspeed]

Originally Posted by Jim968

My race car is a Porsche 968. Primary track is Mid Ohio, but I've been all over. Minimum weight with driver ranges from 3,000 to 3,236 depending on which series I'm running. The car has the big brake option, which is Brembos that are roughly the same size as the ones on our Camaros. Cooling is ducted from inlets on the front of the car.

Trust me the car is set up. In it I have 32 class wins, two regional championships and one national championship. Many of my competitors are using Castrol SRF which is the best fluid out there, but ridiculously expensive. The rest of us use Motul. I don't know any serious racer who is still using ATE.

What car(s) are you racing?

Started SCCA IT cars in the last 90s/early 2000s....Got asked to drive at a NASA event in the mid 2000s for a shop and found out about the the TT format. For budgetary reasons, to keep from swapping paint and to raise a family I last ran TTS. Last event was in 2007 @ Grattan. I only instruct and run HPDEs now.

The Evo below was the heaviest car I had tracked and it weighed in at 3420 with me in it, It also had the same/similar 4 pistons calipers as a Camaro and brake ducts as well....I only used ATE Super Blue fluid in it and at that last event at Gratton in 2007 I ran a 1.27.1 (before the repave).....The only NASA car faster on Saturday was the SU Shannon (1:24.x) pictured and on Sunday it was the Shannon again and then the AIX Mustang from Pauls with a 1.26.9

The point is, I used ATE Super Blue in a heavier car than your 968 with similar calipers to your 968 and the Camaro. I drove the car hard, ran faster than all of the NASA classes (SEE BELOW) that weekend with the exception of 1 SU car and 1AIX car and I had zero issues with the brakes or fluid.

Now that was 6 years ago and I have a heavier 1LE to slow down....Motul maybe in my future.

Note: the last one is a picture of your car at Grattan on the same weekend in 2007, we exchanged pleasantries as I admired your car..

[summit1le]

I appreciate all of the feedback!~! After doing my research and having to spend money on my Harness Bars, Harness, Helmet, Hans ETC. I think I am going to start with just Upgrading pads, Cooling,Lines, and Fluid. I will give it a go at Homestead and let you all know how it worked out,.Next Upgrade will be RB 2 Piece Rotors and maybe their rebuild kit with SS Pistons