Trimming the fat...

[caverman]

Ok...just a thought since from all the replies it doesn't sound like you are really going to be able to reduce the weight a much and have a driver.

Get you a 1SS so you can have money to work with. Get with someone like http://www.mtiracing.com/ or http://www.detroitspeed.com/. Put on their Coil Over package. Got to a local speed shop or one of the Speed Shop sponsors on here. Have them put in a Stage II kit or maybe a super charger. This will increase your HP and give you better handling and although it might still be close to 3900 lbs I'll bet you'll have a ton of fun with it and you'll be driving in Style and Comfort. If you want the Camaro as a driver, you may have to come to terms that it's going to weigh more than the 3400 lbs you want it to.

[JewelZ]

Toss out your engine, shoot your feet through the floor of the car, and flinstone your ass around!! JK! JK!!!

[Doc]

Hmm.... how about you give us the power to weight ratio you're looking for? I'm on a weight-reduction plan for the car but I have no intention of gutting it or damaging the look and feel of it the way it is now; just want a more responsive machine. I traded in a Mazda RX8 which had fabulous cornering and response but it's nowhere near as exciting as my Camaro is.

Give us the p/w ratio target and I can start listing things to help get you there. I take it you don't want to mod the engine in any way?

[jamnutz]

Originally Posted by Jekyll-N-Hyde

Keep in mind the IRS is Heavy and last but not least give it 2 years and the mustang will weigh the same as us due to updating safety stuff in the car.

I was reading through the whole thread waiting for someone to say that. The new Camaro already meets or exceeds the 2012 Safety Standards, the current Mustang doesn't. Look for the Mustangs to be weighing the same or more than the new Camaro's soon.

[Z/28orSs]

Originally Posted by coolman

I know how you feel and would like the samething. I have an 87 gta trans am with 75 less hp than my wifes 2010 camaro with the v-6 and it feels way more sports car like. I believe this has to be the wieght differance.

tires (Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta) and pedders.. changes understeer and feed back. i dont like the the P zeros

this car is turning up some serious #'s you cant call it a pig

[All-Or-Nothing]

LMAO.........the car is a pig. The only thing saving it is the new horsepower. Get mad if you want but without this new increased horsepower you all would be crying. 3900 is a pig for a Pony car. Just face it.

[coolman]

Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing

LMAO.........the car is a pig. The only thing saving it is the new horsepower. Get mad if you want but without this new increased horsepower you all would be crying. 3900 is a pig for a Pony car. Just face it.

It would still beat your 6 series.

[All-Or-Nothing]

Originally Posted by coolman

It would still beat your 6 series.

That's cool with me. I'll give you a thumbs up as you pull away too.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by RatedZ

I don't plan on autocrossing the car, and I don't plan on drag-racing it. The car will probably hardly ever see the light of day on the track. I simply like a vehicle with a reasonable power/weight ratio because I like the feeling of a car that is light on its feet. I'm not looking for this Camaro to feel like an STi. I'm looking for a car where I can leave the mechanics UNMODIFIED, and have excellent performance. My basic goal is to have the "Ultimate Camaro." The Camaro's a good car, but IMO, its weight keeps it from being great. It has the hardware; the power, IRS, big brakes. It doesn't have the moves.

This car will mainly be a weekend toy, so I don't mind going with a base model or skimping on options. I plan on taking it out on back roads, and probably taking it to some shows. Some people own Miatas as toys. I want a Camaro.

I'm not above going out and buying a Mustang GT with a Track Pack, and if that's what I have to do, then I guess that's what I'll have to do, but I want a Camaro. I'm tired of hearing, "Oh, the Mustang's slow, and the Camaro's faster. The Mustang has a live-axle suspension, the Camaro has an IRS. Blah blah blah." Yeah, that's all great. I've heard it all before, and it's a broken record, but I've driven them both; a Mustang and a Camaro, and the Mustang feels much lighter on its feet than the Camaro. I want a Camaro that feels nearly as light on its feet, and I have no problems with removing things to get that.

Being overweight and not being light on its feet are not necessarily the same thing.
I want a car that is responsive, handles well, and is quick aka "light on its feet".

How do you do that to a 3,850 lb. car?
Start with a rigid body & frame (the Camaro's is excellent).
Tune the suspension to be ultra responsive (See Pedders full coilover, sway, etc. kit).
Put on forged lightweight 19" wheels and tires (All 4 corners sizes matching). The big & heavy 20" wheels & tires are probably the biggest single culprit to the heavy nonresponsive feel.
Lose any unnecessary weight (lighter seats, exhaust, etc.)
Finally add supercharger for more power to weight ratio (this option is not necessary as you will have lost some weight in doing the previous mods).

By doing this this car will "FEEL" & perform unbelievably. Few cars will match this kind of performance!

[Mr. Wyndham]

I declare this thread "FAIL" in every sense of the word. A perfect example of perception ruling reality...

If some of you are so deluded to think that weight is the only factor...and therefore it's a poorly handling pig because of it, then fine...enjoy your baseless opinion. I'm done.


And thank you for answering my questions, Rated Z. BUT...
#1...this car handles as well as many lighter sports cars out there...forgive me if I doubt you actually drove it around the corners you plan to do with the real car. The car is on rails.

#2...that IRS setup in the cobra Mustang was a joke, Rated Z, not to mention that the car did not comply to current saftey standards.

And #3...you CANNOT remove anywhere NEAR 500lbs and still daily-drive it. The saftey is built into the body...the structure, the IRS is bullet-proof, the engine is a "heavy" V8, and the transmission is heavier than others to handle it's outrageous power. The brakes are heavier than a standard cars because they can stop the car in a mere 104 FEET from 60mph...that's approaching supercar territory on factory brake pads and rotors. You CANNOT remove the radio, because it controls some functions of the car, and by removing the AC compressor, fluid and lines, you might save 75 lbs. You could probably take the front and rear impact bars off of the car...there's some 40-50lbs a piece, and you can replace the mufflers for another 10 lbs of weight per resonator. You can replace the wheels and rims with 18" skinny-spokes...maybe saving another 20 lbs total...

So...are you really going to put in all this effort just to add 25hp worth of performance and a negligible handling improvement?



Look, I appreciate where you're coming from...weight is bad, and this car has more than its share of it. But guess what? We can't do anything about it. There's no "weight compartment" on the car that you can just empty out. It's all built in to provide you with class-leading saftey, style, performance, and VALUE.

I reccomend you call Pedders to modify the suspension, install an intake and a tune, and you'll accomplish MORE than your performance goals for far less $$ and headaches.

Otherwise, you're just trying to catch the wind......

[Buckbo]

Remove the airbags, the steel bar inside the doors, air conditioner, window mechanisms, headliner, carpet (trunk too), turn signals (nobody uses them anyway), headlight switch (you have DRL's just leave them on), reverse lights (you can't see backing up anyway), catalytic converter, mufflers, the foam behind the 2.5 mph bumpers, you only need 3 lugs on each wheel, put helium in your tires....

[MikesZ]

Originally Posted by jrhaus76

Doesn't he know fat bottom girls make the rockin world go 'round?

[MrIcky]

In the OP's defense, I can't believe how quickly some of you get offended by the slightest comment. It's like you've somehow directly linked your personal ego's to your car. The OP doesn't appear to be a ricer owner by his avatar message. His concern is legit and others have brought it up- they just didn't use the word "pig" so no one cried.

Also there's a lot of confusion on the difference between "grip" and "handling".

But to the OP, 500lbs is alot- you would struggle to hit that. I'd just do the wheels and tires and the mufflers (because I'd do those anyway).

[djsnoflake]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I declare this thread "FAIL" in every sense of the word. A perfect example of perception ruling reality...

If some of you are so deluded to think that weight is the only factor...and therefore it's a poorly handling pig because of it, then fine...enjoy your baseless opinion. I'm done.


And thank you for answering my questions, Rated Z. BUT...
#1...this car handles as well as many lighter sports cars out there...forgive me if I doubt you actually drove it around the corners you plan to do with the real car. The car is on rails.

#2...that IRS setup in the cobra Mustang was a joke, Rated Z, not to mention that the car did not comply to current saftey standards.

And #3...you CANNOT remove anywhere NEAR 500lbs and still daily-drive it. The saftey is built into the body...the structure, the IRS is bullet-proof, the engine is a "heavy" V8, and the transmission is heavier than others to handle it's outrageous power. The brakes are heavier than a standard cars because they can stop the car in a mere 104 FEET from 60mph...that's approaching supercar territory on factory brake pads and rotors. You CANNOT remove the radio, because it controls some functions of the car, and by removing the AC compressor, fluid and lines, you might save 75 lbs. You could probably take the front and rear impact bars off of the car...there's some 40-50lbs a piece, and you can replace the mufflers for another 10 lbs of weight per resonator. You can replace the wheels and rims with 18" skinny-spokes...maybe saving another 20 lbs total...

So...are you really going to put in all this effort just to add 25hp worth of performance and a negligible handling improvement?



Look, I appreciate where you're coming from...weight is bad, and this car has more than its share of it. But guess what? We can't do anything about it. There's no "weight compartment" on the car that you can just empty out. It's all built in to provide you with class-leading saftey, style, performance, and VALUE.

I reccomend you call Pedders to modify the suspension, install an intake and a tune, and you'll accomplish MORE than your performance goals for far less $$ and headaches.

Otherwise, you're just trying to catch the wind......

X10000000

bench racing alert:

Every 10 lbs = roughly 1 horsepower. Losing 500 pounds off this thing will only net you 50 HP. Granted it would handle better though.

So here's the solution: Get some suspension mods, an intake, headers and exhaust and you will 'Feel' lighter. AND have a complete interior. And come in cheaper.